Does any school?

JR 137 · Black Belt

Let me put this in another way. It’s overly simplified...

Let’s say I need $1200 per year per student to keep the doors open and my students and I are happy with the arrangement. I could charge $100 per month and eliminate testing fees. Or I could charge $75 per month, and charge $75 for tests 4 times a year. Which ever way I do it, it’s $1200 per year. Some people think they’re getting a better deal with lower tuition; others think it’s better to not charge testing fees. Either way, the cost of attending is still $1200 per year.

MatsuShinshii · Black Belt

If you're full time job is teaching then I absolutely understand testing fees (to an extent).

I have never paid for a grading test in my organization over the past 40 years. Why? Because my Shinshii looks at teaching as a passion rather than a job. He holds down a full time job and what he charges is to pay rent, utilities, and misc. supplies like belts and certificates, etc. When I started he was charging $10 a month. Prior to retiring he was charging $54 a month.

I do not charge a testing fee for gradings. But I have a full time job that pays my bills and then some so I do not have to. When I was renting space I charged enough to keep the doors open and the lights on (easy calculation - rent,utilitie and misc. expenses / number of students = each students monthly due). I personally would not feel right to charge for something that has already been paid for. I feel that the student, through the monthly fee's, has paid for my teaching. They earn the belt. I do not sell belts nor rank. Because of this I would never charge a student to test nor to receive what they have already earned. But that is my personal feelings.

Having said this and being in business for my self in an unrelated business and understanding expense, and profit, I understand the need to charge an amount that not only pays the rent, utilities and supplies but also puts a pay check in your pocket to pay bills. And again I have no issue with this.

Making a living to support your family is the right thing to do and if you are teaching as your sole means of doing so then I understand the practice of charging for testing along with monthly dues and find nothing wrong with it. In fact I support it in this circumstance.

My biggest issues are those schools that rip off their students/instructors and their sole purpose is making money. It's a business not a Dojo. The ones that I am talking about are those that have their instructors/ assistant instructors volunteering (perk they get to teach and use the Dojo for free, yeah!) their time but in yet the owner is charging large monthly fee's, testing fee's, forcing their students to buy books and video's from them to get to the next grade and to top it off forcing students to buy their uniforms, belts, and equipment form them as well at a hefty mark up. Oh and I forgot, twice the number of belts and tests to obtain what you could have with half that in another school within the same art. In other words a McDojo.

I have never forced a student to buy uniforms or belts from me either. It is their choice to have me get their Obi/Gi or buy them from another source. The only exception is the Yudansha grades. I send notice to the Hombu that a student has passed their grading for a Yudansha grade and they send me an embroidered Obi with their name, grade and art on it. All Mudansha belts are their choice to get or to get them through me/organization.

I have also never forced a student to buy or spend money on anything to receive a grade. I think it is ridiculous to force a student to pay for this or that or not be able to test. This IS a scam and a pure money making scheme. This is a McDojo period.

Maybe others feel differently but for me personally I don't teach to make money but to pass on what was passed down to me. To me it's a responsibility that I have to both my instructors who taught me and to the art itself. Having said that if I were teaching to support my family I would not have an issue charging higher monthly fee's but still would not charge for tests. Just the way I was brought up in the arts I guess.

There is a magic number of students needed to pay the rent/utilities and supplies. There is also a magic number of students to pay for the instructor should it be their full time job to live on. There is a certain dollar amount that each student would need to pay in order to make this happen. It's simple math. If you need to charge for tests along with monthly dues in order to reach that magic number, I see nothing wrong with doing so. However it's those that reach that number and go far beyond it and then start to increase their dues and start to charge for everything under the sun that I do not see eye to eye with.
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The person who succeeds is not the one who holds back, fearing failure, nor the one who never fails-but the one who moves on in spite of failure.
Charles R. Swindoll

singularity6 · Pre-Black Belt

Please don't get me wrong... I'm not opposed to schools charging for services! In fact, most of them should charge (especially if it's the primary source of income for the instructor.)

I feel lucky to have found the school I'm in. Everyone who's teaching is doing so because they're doing what they love, and it's not their primary source of income. If memory serves, I believe rent for the gym we rent out is less than $400 per year. We lose maybe 10 classes per year due to the church needing the gym for other things and holidays, but overall, it's a sweet deal!
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5th Geup Jidokwan Tae Kwon Do/Hap Ki Do

(Never officially tested in aikido, iaido or kendo)

Spartacus Maximus · Black Belt

It isn’t right to deny anyone the right to earn an honest living. Having said this, what is considered an honest living depends a great deal on several factors mentioned by others here. Things like the state of the economy, the cost of living and whether or not the dojo/school is the primary source of income. Even when the instructor has other work, there still are cost for upkeep. Rent, utilities, maintenance and equipment often cost most of the total earnings.

A truly passionate and dedicated instructor might even be willing to personally pay some of those costs just to keep the the doors open and continue to teach if fees are not enough. Students will never be told, though.

In Okinawa, the cradle of karate, this is widespread. The majority of instructors there work full time at various jobs and run their dojo in the evenings. Very few are lucky enough to own their training space and have to pay rent and buy equipment. Things are the same on mainland Japan and in urbanized areas or large cities such as Tokyo, a small dojo(enough space for 12-15 students) can cost as much as 3000US$ just for rent. As expected, the fees match the cost of living.

sensei8 · KF Sensei

I suspended, then eliminated any and all testing fees because I consider the MA as a want, and not a need.

I wanted to demonstrate to my student body that they are more important to me, than money. Money, during the recession I spoke of in my last post, was difficult for many of my students to make ends meet.

Not only did I eliminate testing fees, I also lowered the overall tuition pricing structure to the bare bone lowest possible.

I've not looked back since!!

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**Proof is on the floor!!!

singularity6 · Pre-Black Belt

MatsuShinshii · Black Belt

Spartacus Maximus,

You are correct that most Okinawan's have full time jobs. Most teach in a make shift Dojo in there homes or as an outbuilding on their property. Others have small Dojo's that they rent and finally you have those that own their own space and teach full time. The later is not common.

My Shinshii adopted this methodology and worked full time, taught at night out of his pole barn. Monthly dues were cheap and we never paid for testings.

I have carried this on myself.

However as I said before there is nothing wrong with keeping the doors open and making a fair living. Of course this is subjective to each person as far as what fair means.
_________________
The person who succeeds is not the one who holds back, fearing failure, nor the one who never fails-but the one who moves on in spite of failure.
Charles R. Swindoll

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