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kenshinkan08
White Belt
White Belt

Joined: 12 Feb 2016
Posts: 4

Styles: Freestyle, Green Belt in Kenshinkan Karate and Kobudo

PostPosted: Tue Apr 27, 2021 5:43 am    Post subject: Favourite Kata Reply with quote

I am just curious people's opinion on what their favourite caught it is in what style The old saying that someone trains for 10 years in one caught him before moving on If you had to choose one to practice or just 1 the rest of your life which 1 would you choose?
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bushido_man96
KF Sensei
KF Sensei

Joined: 31 Mar 2006
Posts: 29040
Location: Hays, KS
Styles: Taekwondo, Combat Hapkido, Aikido, GRACIE

PostPosted: Tue Apr 27, 2021 3:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hello, and welcome to KF!

Well, for me, the only Karate kata I've ever learned was Naifanchi, so that would have to be mine! (Although I do need to practice it....)
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Zaine
Black Belt
Black Belt

Joined: 31 Aug 2005
Posts: 1816
Location: Dallas, TX
Styles: Matsumura-Seito, Shobayashi-Ryu, Shudokan, Long Fist, American Street Karate, Southern Mantis, HEMA

PostPosted: Tue Apr 27, 2021 6:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Welcome to KF!

This answer has changed so much for me over the years, but when it comes down to it Naihanchi Shodan, Matsumura Seito Shorin Ryu is my tops. It was the first one that I learned that made the reasons we do kata click for me.
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SLK59
Yellow Belt
Yellow Belt

Joined: 05 Nov 2020
Posts: 94
Location: USA
Styles: Shotokan Karate

PostPosted: Wed Apr 28, 2021 9:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thirty years ago I trained in Shotokan with the Japan Karate Association, and my favorite kata was Kanku Dai. Now I have begun training again, this time with Shotokan Karate of America, where the same kata is known as Kwanku. After all these years, it is still my favorite one!

Cheers,
Scott
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Miick 11
Yellow Belt
Yellow Belt

Joined: 01 Jan 2021
Posts: 68


PostPosted: Wed Apr 28, 2021 3:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Zaine wrote:
Welcome to KF!

This answer has changed so much for me over the years, but when it comes down to it Naihanchi Shodan, Matsumura Seito Shorin Ryu is my tops. It was the first one that I learned that made the reasons we do kata click for me.


Aha ! a fellow MSSR practitioner !

My instructor teaches that kata first and it was teacher's ( Kosei Nishihira ) favorite . I enjoy doing it, as I suppose I am so familiar with it . We also practice a whole range of bunkai developed from it by Mr N. Including a range of leg defenses that come from the two lots of legs moves - that are usually shown to be a foot sweep and take down .

I am fairly keen on Chinto , but I suppose lately it would be Hakatsuru ,

I was asked to demonstrate it the other week at training when we had a visiting Instructor ( who is yet to learn it ) . It was a bit tricky as I was ( and still are ) suffering from a bout of Bell's Palsy and its effected my inner ear and balance .

I am curious on your tradition, what line did it come down to you From Hohan Soken ? Mine came, via Ted Lange who bought it to Australia, taught my instructor and after Mr Soken died they both accepted Mr Nishihira as teacher .

I am also VERY curious and interested if you do Hakatsuru , and what version you do ? I have been trying to track our one down , I have only ever seen one like it on an old bad obscure film from USA from another MSSR group( which I cat find now ). We only know it by that name , however I have seen reference to Hakatsuru Sho , Dai and mei (our one osnt mei as i have seen a film of it) .

Its not the most common one .... it certainly isnt this ;

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GEaxhnah8Z0


rather confusing as that is Kusanku Some here have said The one Soken does is Hakatsuru Dai , but I have yet to see that .

It is not this one either

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4syW1IklPp0

I cant post film as i have not found one

It starts as most versions do, with a kusanku like beginning , you move to the right and do a technique, go back to the front where there is a finger strike (into the throat) and then (probably the most distinctive move in it ) you move to the left and make a snatching and thrusting movement that represents stealing the comb from the hair and thrusting back with the comb , then 3 kicks ( with the typical crane hand movements ) in three directions .

- that should be enough as the other versions do not start like this .

Sound familiar anyone ?

Help much appreciated .
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Nevinyrral
Blue Belt
Blue Belt

Joined: 16 Jul 2010
Posts: 276
Location: Poland
Styles: Karate

PostPosted: Wed Apr 28, 2021 5:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I would say either jion or hangetsu.
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Zaine
Black Belt
Black Belt

Joined: 31 Aug 2005
Posts: 1816
Location: Dallas, TX
Styles: Matsumura-Seito, Shobayashi-Ryu, Shudokan, Long Fist, American Street Karate, Southern Mantis, HEMA

PostPosted: Wed Apr 28, 2021 7:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Miick 11 wrote:
Aha ! a fellow MSSR practitioner !


A lot of questions! I so rarely meet another MSSR person!

Unfortunately, I never got the chance to learn Chinto or Hakatsuru. My instructor kept Chinto behind Shodan and didn't know Hakatsuru (I'm also not entirely sure that he was well versed in Chinto. He kept putting off teaching me despite my constant asking). I made shodan but then moved away for school about 6 months afterwards. By the time I got back he was no longer teaching and had moved away himself. As you may know, MSSR isn't super easy to find, so I haven't had the chance to continue my training in my home system. I might just have to travel. Oddly enough, he did end up moving not a small amount of katas around towards the end of my time with him, but the overtly crane stuff wasn't part of it.

I have found that it is nearly impossible to find the katas as we do them online. A lot of Shorinji, Goju, and other branches but no MSSR stuff. I know that MSSR people can be a little secretive, and that attitude gets passed down a little through the ages, but I would love to see some good uploads on YouTube.

My lineage goes Soken>Kise>Coffman>Gagne>Pinder (my teacher). We learned the katas in the line that my teacher did so we started with the Pinans and Nihanchi came around 6th kyu.
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Miick 11
Yellow Belt
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Joined: 01 Jan 2021
Posts: 68


PostPosted: Thu Apr 29, 2021 4:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Zaine wrote:
Miick 11 wrote:
Aha ! a fellow MSSR practitioner !


A lot of questions! I so rarely meet another MSSR person!

Unfortunately, I never got the chance to learn Chinto or Hakatsuru. My instructor kept Chinto behind Shodan and didn't know Hakatsuru (I'm also not entirely sure that he was well versed in Chinto. He kept putting off teaching me despite my constant asking). I made shodan but then moved away for school about 6 months afterwards. By the time I got back he was no longer teaching and had moved away himself. As you may know, MSSR isn't super easy to find, so I haven't had the chance to continue my training in my home system. I might just have to travel. Oddly enough, he did end up moving not a small amount of katas around towards the end of my time with him, but the overtly crane stuff wasn't part of it.

I have found that it is nearly impossible to find the katas as we do them online. A lot of Shorinji, Goju, and other branches but no MSSR stuff. I know that MSSR people can be a little secretive, and that attitude gets passed down a little through the ages, but I would love to see some good uploads on YouTube.

My lineage goes Soken>Kise>Coffman>Gagne>Pinder (my teacher). We learned the katas in the line that my teacher did so we started with the Pinans and Nihanchi came around 6th kyu.


Thanks for the response and info . Yes, it is rare to find another - hence all my questions .

Its getting rarer . here in Oz we needed to sort things out as Ted ( head instructor for Australia and ex student of Hohan Soken ) sadly passed away this year and took a lot of knowledge with him . My instructor has been elected as one of 3 running things here , and the one that seems to have retained the most ( kata , bunkai, weapons forms ), yet, often and recently I had to to do demos to teach this stuff as he is starting to get forgetful and confused .

So at the moment I am holding in memory and form ; Pinan 1 - 5 , Niharchin 1 - 3 , Passai 1 & 2 ,Rohai , Chinto, Jojushiho , Hakatsuru ( still working on kusanku ), Oshimi pasai and Nobudi nogata . 5 Bo kata , 3 sai, 3 gamma, 2 ecu, a range of sword and jo techniques and a jo / sword dual kata or form I developed .

I cat see things progressing much , no new people and everyone getting older .

I am happy to teach anyone ( who I judge to be 'worthwhile' , that is, a person who will not misuse it ) , I am not keen on modern teaching ; big schools, seeking business or money ( I change absolutely nothing ) , full of kids getting colored belts etc , more like old school style , small group of people , no 'big business .

If you ever happen down this way.

Oh , one last question, if you wouldn't mind ( just a bit of research ;

when you do an 'outer block ' , 'inner block' or 'lower' block ' , with your blocking hand , in each of these techniques , are you knuckles facing the target or side on to it ?

Eg; if you do 'gedan bari' against a leg, are your knuckles facing the leg sideways or facing upwards ?
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Zaine
Black Belt
Black Belt

Joined: 31 Aug 2005
Posts: 1816
Location: Dallas, TX
Styles: Matsumura-Seito, Shobayashi-Ryu, Shudokan, Long Fist, American Street Karate, Southern Mantis, HEMA

PostPosted: Fri Apr 30, 2021 6:07 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Miick 11 wrote:
So at the moment I am holding in memory and form ; Pinan 1 - 5 , Niharchin 1 - 3 , Passai 1 & 2 ,Rohai , Chinto, Jojushiho , Hakatsuru ( still working on kusanku ), Oshimi pasai and Nobudi nogata . 5 Bo kata , 3 sai, 3 gamma, 2 ecu, a range of sword and jo techniques and a jo / sword dual kata or form I developed .

We had (and I'm not entirely sure why the American tradition went this way) a few Shorinji kata in our program. So I'm holding on to Seisan, Wansu, and Ananku as well.

I've actually been mulling over the idea of making an online repository for MSSR (and other systems, but MSSR is what I know). It seems a little silly that in 2021 our system can be dying off due to lack of knowledge. There has to be someone in the world who has knowledge of the things we're losing. I'm involved in HEMA as well and every fencing manual from the Medieval and Renaissance period are easily found on Wiktenauer, a free online Wiki. I know that MSSR can be secretive, that seems to be a trait of MA at large but I've never met another MSSR practitioner who wasn't at least a little guarded. I totally understand this, as well! Like you, I balk at the idea of making changes within the kata and various traditional techniques. I don't mind those techniques being adapted in sparring etc. but I believe that we should learn the original technique before adaptation. That said, if there was, at bare minimum, a drop box file that held kata information that instructors could share with their students as they came to these kata that would be awesome. I know that for my purposes it would be great to see some kata again to knock off some rust.

Quote:
when you do an 'outer block ' , 'inner block' or 'lower' block ' , with your blocking hand , in each of these techniques , are you knuckles facing the target or side on to it ?

So like I mentioned above the American program has incorporated some Shorinji techniques. So the MSSR I learned had both blocks with the knuckles facing toward and to the side of the opponent that we separated into "Matsumura" and "Shorinji" blocks (we had punches in both of these techniques as well). That said, in practice and sparring, we were mostly encouraged to use the Matsumura techniques, which is the knuckles facing the opponent.
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sensei8
KF Sensei
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Joined: 23 Feb 2008
Posts: 15504
Location: Houston, TX
Styles: Shindokan Saitou-ryu [Shuri-te/Okinawa-te based]

PostPosted: Sat May 01, 2021 10:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Unsu or Naifanchi



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