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karatekid1975
KF VIP
Joined: 26 Mar 2002
Posts: 4588
Location: Upstate NY
Styles: Tang Soo Do/TKD/jujitsu
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 Posted: Sun Nov 02, 2003 1:07 am Post subject: |
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tommarker, I came from an TSD background, so I learned the same way as you. Now that I do TKD, I still do the same. The hips generate the most power (to me anyways).
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Shorinryu Sensei
Black Belt
Joined: 13 Jun 2002
Posts: 2045
Location: Kalispell, Montana
Styles: Shorinryu Matsumura Kenpo (Seito/Orthodox) Karate and Kobudo
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| Posted: Sun Nov 02, 2003 8:06 am Post subject: |
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| delta1 wrote: |
I suppose it can, especially if you "throw" your body parts into a technique. But it doesn't have to, and won't if you do it right.
Are you saying Shorinyu Kempo doesn't square the hips in some moves or techniques, or just that you don't throw them? |
Well, I'm sure you know how it's sometimes quite difficult to explain things over the net, but essentially, we don't rotate our shoulders with punches, and thrust our hips forward with kicks.
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Those two seem to be key to most styles. But please, tell me you aren't one of those instructors who stands with his mouth next to a students ear and screams "Relax!!! You motherless... ,"  You just gotta love those guys! |
Naw, I donb't yell in class...but yes, the word "relax" enters into the class fairly often. I have one student, a nikyu (2nd brown belt) who's been with me quite a while, that just can't get his body to lossen up. He's my age *50) and muscular, and just plain stiff! It's not a matter of stretching I don't think, and I just can't seem to find a way (short of getting him drunk perhaps) to loosen up.
Suggestions would be appreciated. |
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ninjanurse
KF VIP
Joined: 13 Feb 2003
Posts: 6154
Location: Upstate NY
Styles: TKD;Shotokan;JuJitsu;Tai Ji
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| Posted: Sun Nov 02, 2003 9:21 am Post subject: |
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It's all in the hips baby  !!!!
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"A Black Belt is only the beginning."
Heidi-A student of the arts
Tae Kwon Do,Shotokan,Ju Jitsu,Modern Arnis
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aefibird
Black Belt
Joined: 26 Oct 2003
Posts: 4416
Location: UK
Styles: Past and present: 2 styles of Karate, TKD, Aikido, Wing Chun, some Tai Chi
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| Posted: Sun Nov 02, 2003 10:49 am Post subject: |
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| hajime wrote: |
hips, hips, hips hurray 
seriously in Wado Ryu it's in the hips, as well as timing and speed of course but pivot on those hips.
it's why you don't need to have muscular arms to hit powerfully. Technique is 100% more important. |
Ditto for Shotokan. It's all in the legs and the hips/rotation of the hips. A lot of power comes from the calf muscles too, transferred up through the hips.
Hmm, most people have mentioned hip power...do ya think there's a bit of a theme going on here?!?!?
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delta1
Black Belt
Joined: 17 Feb 2003
Posts: 1780
Location: North Central Washington
Styles: It's ALL Kenpo! Bring it back to base!
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| Posted: Sun Nov 02, 2003 5:22 pm Post subject: |
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| Shorinryu Sensei wrote: |
| I have one student that just can't get his body to lossen up. He's my age *50) and muscular, and just plain stiff! It's not a matter of stretching I don't think, and I just can't seem to find a way to loosen (him) up. Suggestions would be appreciated. |
Relaxation exercises and meditation might help. Basically, sit, stand,or recline. Try to clear your mind, then concentrate on different areas of your body and relax them. Alternately tense and relax your body so you get a feel for the difference. Inventory your body in detail, concentrate on both large and small muscle groups and relax them. Look for areas that hold tension. Relaxation works best when you allow it to happen, as opposed to forcing it. When you do these exercises, focus on breathing. Exhale and settle as you relax. Then, when you find yourself tense in a situation, exhale and settle and that will trigger the relaxation. It will take time and work, but he should get it.
If that fails, get him drunk! 
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delta1
Black Belt
Joined: 17 Feb 2003
Posts: 1780
Location: North Central Washington
Styles: It's ALL Kenpo! Bring it back to base!
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| Posted: Sun Nov 02, 2003 6:32 pm Post subject: |
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Shorinryu Sensei, there is another possibility. Any one fool enough to be doing martial arts at fifty (and that includes me ) probably has led a lifestyle that included a lot of other things that might get you hurt. He could be dealing with old injuries, and they may or may not be apparent. One that he might not even be aware of is myofacial binding, which occurs with ANY trauma and is accumulative over your lifetime. It makes it physically impossible to relax. It can be treated by a good physical therapist that has been trained to treat it, but it is a litle expensive and can be very painful. But the health bennifits to getting this treated if it is a problem (every one has it to some extent) are incalculable. Just a thought.
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WhiteBelt
Green Belt
Joined: 26 Dec 2002
Posts: 385
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| Posted: Mon Nov 03, 2003 6:45 pm Post subject: |
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I've tried hitting a heavy bag the shotokan way (that I've been taught, shoulders square + rotate hips) and it just doesn't work at all for me. If I put my shoulders into the punch I have less chance of injury and more power. After that initial experiment I tried to put my shoulders to work in the traditional blocks and found that with the right timing, again, there is increased power. The only problem is that it's harder to readjust when you miss.
As for kicks, I find that the MT style roundhouse has the best power output for me. It doesn't throw me off balance as much as putting my shoulders into strikes and blocks, so it's safer as well. |
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delta1
Black Belt
Joined: 17 Feb 2003
Posts: 1780
Location: North Central Washington
Styles: It's ALL Kenpo! Bring it back to base!
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| Posted: Mon Nov 03, 2003 8:21 pm Post subject: |
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| WhiteBelt wrote: |
| I've tried hitting a heavy bag the shotokan way (that I've been taught, shoulders square + rotate hips) and it just doesn't work at all for me. If I put my shoulders into the punch I have less chance of injury and more power. After that initial experiment I tried to put my shoulders to work in the traditional blocks and found that with the right timing, again, there is increased power. The only problem is that it's harder to readjust when you miss. As for kicks, I find that the MT style roundhouse has the best power output for me. It doesn't throw me off balance as much as putting my shoulders into strikes and blocks, so it's safer as well. |
| aefibird wrote: |
It's all in the legs and the hips/rotation of the hips. A lot of power comes from the calf muscles too, transferred up through the hips.
Hmm, most people have mentioned hip power...do ya think there's a bit of a theme going on here? |
Some good points (except that I don't know how Shotokan teaches power generation). Most of the problems I've seen with using the hips for power generation is concentrating on moving from the hips. Turning the hips gives alignment and structure, and helps transfer power up from the legs. But movement should come from the waist, not the hips. The waist connects heaven and earth (upper and lower parts of the body) and all movement should originate in the waist, even in the external arts. The hips (and everything else) should follow the waist. I've heard several martial artists talk about moving from the tan tien, then watched them initiate their movement at the hips. This is a disconnect, which robs power no matter what style you are doing. If movement originates at the waist, shoulders and hips will move at the same time. Your stance and strike can solidify at the same time (in external styles) and you hit with the whole body, not just the arm.
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aefibird
Black Belt
Joined: 26 Oct 2003
Posts: 4416
Location: UK
Styles: Past and present: 2 styles of Karate, TKD, Aikido, Wing Chun, some Tai Chi
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| Posted: Tue Nov 04, 2003 8:41 am Post subject: |
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| delta1 wrote: |
Some good points (except that I don't know how Shotokan teaches power generation). Most of the problems I've seen with using the hips for power generation is concentrating on moving from the hips. Turning the hips gives alignment and structure, and helps transfer power up from the legs. But movement should come from the waist, not the hips. The waist connects heaven and earth (upper and lower parts of the body) and all movement should originate in the waist, even in the external arts. The hips (and everything else) should follow the waist. I've heard several martial artists talk about moving from the tan tien, then watched them initiate their movement at the hips. This is a disconnect, which robs power no matter what style you are doing. If movement originates at the waist, shoulders and hips will move at the same time. Your stance and strike can solidify at the same time (in external styles) and you hit with the whole body, not just the arm. |
| WhiteBelt wrote: |
I've tried hitting a heavy bag the shotokan way (that I've been taught, shoulders square + rotate hips) and it just doesn't work at all for me. If I put my shoulders into the punch I have less chance of injury and more power. After that initial experiment I tried to put my shoulders to work in the traditional blocks and found that with the right timing, again, there is increased power. |
Really, though, its your whole body that helps generate power, throught the way you stand and the positioning of your muscles at the time. I think that, quite often, a lot of people put too much emphasis on the hips(although they ARE important) and forget a bit about other parts of your body. Like Delta1 said, the waist is important for generating power too, as are the shoulders and the calf muscles.
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| Posted: Tue Nov 04, 2003 9:03 am Post subject: |
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I agree with delta1 about the hip bit. I find that most people preach about power from the hips because they don't really understand where power comes from. Your legs and hips are just the start. Power is cumulative. Don't just get the hips invovled. Use the hips, waist, shoulder and arm. Add some wieght to the strike by shifting your center into the punch, so that your weight is not resting 100% on your two legs, and have some of your weight on the punch.
I find that my side kick has the most power, as I can throw the entire weight of my body behind it. |
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on the post.
