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Alan Armstrong
Black Belt
Black Belt

Joined: 28 Feb 2016
Posts: 2016


PostPosted: Thu Nov 16, 2017 10:06 am    Post subject: Grand Master Kwon Reply with quote

Grand Master Kwon. MMA takdowns and new techniques.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=ok7x2F3o00o

How did you like this video?
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sensei8
KF Sensei
KF Sensei

Joined: 23 Feb 2008
Posts: 14183
Location: Houston, TX
Styles: Shindokan Saitou-ryu [Shuri-te/Okinawa-te based]

PostPosted: Sun Dec 03, 2017 7:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I didn't like the video because what was shown wasn't informative, but more of a strange promo of himself.

Imho!!



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TJ-Jitsu
Blue Belt
Blue Belt

Joined: 30 Sep 2014
Posts: 316
Location: PA
Styles: Gracie Jiu Jitsu, Muay Thai

PostPosted: Sun Dec 03, 2017 5:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

You know, I really try to be as nice as possible on here (and in person tbh) but I'm a fan of respecting peoples wishes and telling them exactly what I think when asked and I see no reason not to now....

I cant think of an adjective to describe our "master" here that wouldn't be inflammatory and get this post removed so I'll say this: if hes a grandmaster then pay respect where its due and call every BJJ blue belt and judo brown belt Supreme Grand Master or something

WHY must TMA's insist on trying to each things they DO NOT know? Whats wrong with him sticking with (presumably) Hapkido? Its not terribly different than Jeff Speakman and his "Kempo 5.0" which is BJJ taught by a white belt. For comparison this guys knowledge of grappling techniques is on par with someone who's been doing bjj for maybe a year- that is to say a solid white belt. Everything was just bad. The striking is whatever- its a Korean style with flying kicks, I'm use to that but he just had to go and "teach" his joint locks and takedowns and "MMA." The problem is he doesn't know enough to be teaching them!

This guy is the personification of exactly whats been wrong with martial arts. If you're going to teach BJJ WEAR YOUR BJJ RANK. Since the rebuttal is most likely going to be "this isn't BJJ" I'm going to jump ahead and offer the following:

Hes either a white belt wearing a 10 degree black belt teaching BJJ, in other words a fraud

"Hes not teaching BJJ, hes teaching Hapkido" or whatever it is- in this case what hes teaching is so bad hes better off not teaching it at all.

If a BJJ guy were teaching karate or tkd or anything else with his BJJ belt and rank on I'd be just as critical.

So at best hes a grandmaster at being a white belt. At worst hes a fraud. Don't claim to know something you don't and don't try to teach things you do not know how to do.
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Spartacus Maximus
Black Belt
Black Belt

Joined: 01 Jun 2014
Posts: 1692

Styles: Shorin ryu

PostPosted: Mon Dec 04, 2017 9:39 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The problem of people teaching something in which they are not fully competent or do no yet understand is not exclusive to “traditional martial arts”. It usually happens unintentionally when someone teaches an eclectic system or intentionally when someone wants to offer two or more “styles” to appeal to more students and for personal benefits(reputation, pride, profits).

A truly dedicated instructor who has a passion for teaching will remain within their field(style) of expertise, whatever that may be. They may or may not encourage students to seek training in other techniques or styles and give reasonably good advice on this, but it would not be ethical for them to claim knowledge or skill they do not have or attempt to teach or even demonstrate it.

There are many highly skilled instructors with one or two styles in which they are an expert but at the same time have been practising for long enough to have a nearly encyclopedic knowledge OF and ABOUT many others. The good and rest ones will say: “I teach X, but I have only studied/observed Y. If you want to learn some Y, then you must find a Y instructor”
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MatsuShinshii
Black Belt
Black Belt

Joined: 15 Aug 2016
Posts: 1423
Location: Kentucky
Styles: Machimura Suidi Rokudan, Ryukyu Kenpo, Kobudo, Judo

PostPosted: Mon Dec 04, 2017 5:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I really hate to be so opinionated again but what was that??????????????
Ego much?

That was neither informative or useful IMHO. Nothing against Korean arts whatsoever but why does every known art have to have a ground fighting element when it never did before?

I would have more respect for this man if he were showing fighting from the ground applications rather than ground fighting applications. Why would anyone go to a TKD school to learn ground fighting????????

I get that this is a weak point for many of us and our arts but learning a few moves online or during a seminar does not a master make. Even I can see the basic understanding of the applications.

I guess that means that a doctor can perform surgery after watching it being performed by someone with those actual skills?

I think I'll make a ground fighting video and sell it. I'm sure people would flock to buy it. For martial arts bloopers that is.
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The person who succeeds is not the one who holds back, fearing failure, nor the one who never fails-but the one who moves on in spite of failure.
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Tempest
Green Belt
Green Belt

Joined: 31 Aug 2006
Posts: 416
Location: Tulsa, OK
Styles: Judo, HEMA

PostPosted: Tue Dec 05, 2017 9:39 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

MatsuShinshii wrote:
I really hate to be so opinionated again but what was that??????????????
Ego much?

That was neither informative or useful IMHO. Nothing against Korean arts whatsoever but why does every known art have to have a ground fighting element when it never did before?

I would have more respect for this man if he were showing fighting from the ground applications rather than ground fighting applications. Why would anyone go to a TKD school to learn ground fighting????????

I get that this is a weak point for many of us and our arts but learning a few moves online or during a seminar does not a master make. Even I can see the basic understanding of the applications.

I guess that means that a doctor can perform surgery after watching it being performed by someone with those actual skills?

I think I'll make a ground fighting video and sell it. I'm sure people would flock to buy it. For martial arts bloopers that is.


See Matsu, this is why I would love to train Karate with you. If I were in Kentucky I would probably try and do that.

The ability to admit when you don't know everything.
Most of my regular training partners in Judo and Jiujitsu will be the first to direct you somewhere else if you come looking for striking training, even though several of them ARE black belts in Karate/Tae-kwon-do and one of them is a former pro kickboxer.
I don't even list Karate among my styles HERE though I have been doing it off and on for 20+ years. The thing is, it's still not my area of expertise.

Yet, when I speak to people, in my area anyway, who have maybe 6 months to a year part time training in a grappling discipline they will be happy to tell me all about how they are great at it.

Marketing. It's all just marketing. And don't think that the Jiu-jitsu schools are immune to this either. Commercial martial arts schools are simply vulnerable to marketing based ego drives or ego-based marketing drives.
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MatsuShinshii
Black Belt
Black Belt

Joined: 15 Aug 2016
Posts: 1423
Location: Kentucky
Styles: Machimura Suidi Rokudan, Ryukyu Kenpo, Kobudo, Judo

PostPosted: Tue Dec 05, 2017 5:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Tempest wrote:
MatsuShinshii wrote:
I really hate to be so opinionated again but what was that??????????????
Ego much?

That was neither informative or useful IMHO. Nothing against Korean arts whatsoever but why does every known art have to have a ground fighting element when it never did before?

I would have more respect for this man if he were showing fighting from the ground applications rather than ground fighting applications. Why would anyone go to a TKD school to learn ground fighting????????

I get that this is a weak point for many of us and our arts but learning a few moves online or during a seminar does not a master make. Even I can see the basic understanding of the applications.

I guess that means that a doctor can perform surgery after watching it being performed by someone with those actual skills?

I think I'll make a ground fighting video and sell it. I'm sure people would flock to buy it. For martial arts bloopers that is.


See Matsu, this is why I would love to train Karate with you. If I were in Kentucky I would probably try and do that.

The ability to admit when you don't know everything.
Most of my regular training partners in Judo and Jiujitsu will be the first to direct you somewhere else if you come looking for striking training, even though several of them ARE black belts in Karate/Tae-kwon-do and one of them is a former pro kickboxer.
I don't even list Karate among my styles HERE though I have been doing it off and on for 20+ years. The thing is, it's still not my area of expertise.

Yet, when I speak to people, in my area anyway, who have maybe 6 months to a year part time training in a grappling discipline they will be happy to tell me all about how they are great at it.

Marketing. It's all just marketing. And don't think that the Jiu-jitsu schools are immune to this either. Commercial martial arts schools are simply vulnerable to marketing based ego drives or ego-based marketing drives.


If your ever in Kentucky or if I am ever in Oklahoma I'd love to train with you. You can teach me how not to become a pretzel.

My problem with that video is that they have never, as far as I know, had a ground fighting element to their art. I train in what I call old school Suidi (Shuri-te) and we do have a small element of ground fighting but it's not what those today would consider ground fighting. It comes from Gou Quan or Dog boxing. It's mainly fighting from the ground with the intent of getting back to our feet which is where I want to be. Its not fighting on the ground and rolling around with someone waiting for them to make a mistake so I can twist them into a pretzel knot. Its used to damage the opponent, create enough space or take them down so you can get up.

I have nothing against those arts that recognize they have a weakness and want to learn how to improve it. What I have a problem with is these high ranked instructors passing off basic level skills to their students as if they will be able to contend with a BJJ practitioner in their element. Its irresponsible and dangerous. Make your money selling something that you actually know about.

I personally would never want someone to film me fighting a BJJ guy if it went to the ground because they would hear and see things that would be a huge source of embarrassment for me for the rest of my life. I'm not a ground fighter nor do I claim to be. As you said my expertise is on my feet. Why then would I learn a few moves off of a Youtube video or from a class/seminar I took and pass it off to my students to give them false confidence in a game they can not win? This is not the responsible behavior that I would expect from a high ranking teacher of an art. It personally sickens me.

I took Judo for a few years (Not a BB) and can tell you that his hold down skills are a joke. That coming from a Yonkyu in Judo (me) commenting on the hold down skills of a grand master (in his art). And believe me when I say that if I think that is a basic knowledge it's less than that because I only have a basic knowledge and can execute better hold down skills than he was. That's truly not saying much about this man's skill because I... well I'm not that good at it.

I say stick to what you know and if you want your students to learn how to be effective on the ground create a relationship with a local MMA or BJJ or Jujutsu instructor and have them go their to learn the art and maybe he can send his students to you for striking skills. Don't teach it as if you know what you're doing. As pointed out in another post, just because you wear that belt does not make you that grade in another art.

Well that's going to get me into another rant about grades from one art thinking they deserve the same in a different art. I'll stop here or I'll be angrily hitting keys all night and won't be able to sleep.

The point is we all have our strengths and our weaknesses. If you wish to make money from your students then do it teaching them something you actually know and give them value for their hard earned money not a pipe dream that will get them twisted into a pretzel knot.
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The person who succeeds is not the one who holds back, fearing failure, nor the one who never fails-but the one who moves on in spite of failure.
Charles R. Swindoll
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sensei8
KF Sensei
KF Sensei

Joined: 23 Feb 2008
Posts: 14183
Location: Houston, TX
Styles: Shindokan Saitou-ryu [Shuri-te/Okinawa-te based]

PostPosted: Tue Dec 05, 2017 6:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Psst...MatsuShinshii,

I'm in Tulsa, OK TOO!! ::Hint:: ::Hint::



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Tempest
Green Belt
Green Belt

Joined: 31 Aug 2006
Posts: 416
Location: Tulsa, OK
Styles: Judo, HEMA

PostPosted: Wed Dec 06, 2017 8:40 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

sensei8 wrote:
Psst...MatsuShinshii,

I'm in Tulsa, OK TOO!! ::Hint:: ::Hint::




Yeah... what he said
_________________
Think first, act second, and stop getting the two confused.

darsksideofthemat.blogspot.com
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MatsuShinshii
Black Belt
Black Belt

Joined: 15 Aug 2016
Posts: 1423
Location: Kentucky
Styles: Machimura Suidi Rokudan, Ryukyu Kenpo, Kobudo, Judo

PostPosted: Wed Dec 06, 2017 4:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well if I ever get out to Tulsa I'll drop in on both of you. We'll prove it on the floor Bob.
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The person who succeeds is not the one who holds back, fearing failure, nor the one who never fails-but the one who moves on in spite of failure.
Charles R. Swindoll
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