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Reklats
Blue Belt
Joined: 24 Sep 2003
Posts: 349
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 Posted: Mon Sep 29, 2003 7:24 pm Post subject: |
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| Drunken Monkey wrote: |
it isn't about not practicing how it is performed but rather that what we practice isn't always how it is performed.
there's a thread somewhere here about forms. go find it, have a read.
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How about you go find a definition of "circular logic" and have a read. |
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Drunken Monkey
Black Belt
Joined: 10 Apr 2002
Posts: 3559
Location: bar italia
Styles: white chocolate profiteroles and natas....
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| Posted: Tue Sep 30, 2003 5:45 am Post subject: |
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i take it you're not going to look for that thread and read about what katas/forms are for then...
you might learn something.
at the very least you will hear more about what some of us think.
_________________
post count is directly related to how much free time you have, not how intelligent you are.
"When you have to kill a man it costs nothing to be polite." |
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Sasori_Te
Black Belt
Joined: 15 Aug 2003
Posts: 1116
Location: Near Akron Ohio
Styles: Kempo and Kobudo
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| Posted: Tue Sep 30, 2003 6:46 am Post subject: |
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I'm not offended but thanks for being concerned. *L*
| Reklats wrote: |
| kempocos wrote: |
Reklats - perhaps if you could offer any information as abasis for your statements.
Sasori_te - once again you save me from having to reswpond. thanks. |
AnonymousCoward said that the steps were a "sweep to open up your opponent", and so you could "raise your centre of gravity so that you can drop it when you strike".
How is either of those so? Sasori_te didn't support either of AnonymousCoward's arguents, he just added two of his own.
I actually disagree with part of what Anonymous Coward said. You don't raise your center of gravity and drop it into a strike. You shift it into the strike. If you raise or lower your center then your are intentionally putting yourself off balance and bad things can happen. As for the leg sweep it's more of a shift and nudge with the foot and knee (the way I do it).
| Drunken Monkey wrote: |
| and if you think we, as martial artists, would fight using things exactly as they are done in forms, then you have so much more to learn. |
Why not practice it like you're going to perform it?
Because you can never be sure of exactly how you'll need to perform it. You practice it like you test a scientific theory, the best you can with as much knowledge as you have available.
| Sasori_Te wrote: |
The crescent step also allows you to shift your weight into your strike as you complete the step. This is true for most karate styles as well as tae kwon do.
Just because you don't understand it doesn't mean there isn't a reason for it. Ask or do some research before you knock it. |
Why shift your weight when striking? Wouldn't it be more "efficient" to push off with your back leg than to bring it forward with your hand?
If you push off with the rear leg in a straight line, then you are totally committed to that strike. You won't be able to pull it back or change it efficiently if you need to. You're center of gravity will be forward over a foot that hasn't touched the ground yet. If you get countered from an off-line position you have a very real chance of falling on your butt.
Sorry if I offended you, that was my way of asking, I guess. You shouldn't get insulted when you make statements that require a deal of explanation like "there is no wasted movement in forms" and people question you. |
Again, no offense taken. you can't ever learn if you don't ask. I'm sure there a many people who would disagree with what I'm saying here. This is simply my opinion.
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A block is a strike is a lock is a throw. |
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Shorinryu Sensei
Black Belt
Joined: 13 Jun 2002
Posts: 2045
Location: Kalispell, Montana
Styles: Shorinryu Matsumura Kenpo (Seito/Orthodox) Karate and Kobudo
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| Posted: Sun Oct 05, 2003 11:59 am Post subject: |
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| cross wrote: |
Thanks for your replies.
Here are my thoughts:
It teaches you the full range of the movement and the correct body mechanics. So then you can perform the technique from any position while maintaining the correct mechanics and maximising power. |
GIVE THIS MAN A CIGAR!!! He's absolutly correct! Chambering the punch (same with blocks) is to learn proper technique and teach your muscles how to move. obviously, you would not chamgber a punch or block in a real fight. |
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cross
Black Belt
Joined: 22 Jan 2003
Posts: 1904
Location: Australia
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| Posted: Sun Oct 05, 2003 8:27 pm Post subject: |
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| I dont smoke. |
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delta1
Black Belt
Joined: 17 Feb 2003
Posts: 1780
Location: North Central Washington
Styles: It's ALL Kenpo! Bring it back to base!
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| Posted: Thu Oct 09, 2003 9:30 am Post subject: |
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| Sasori_Te wrote: |
For the first reason view previous posts as to what the hand chamber can represent.
As for walking in kata being inefficient. It comes loosely from the Chinese styles and allows you to shift your weight completely to one leg while stepping so that you are more stable if you are attacked while stepping. The crescent step also allows you to shift your weight into your strike as you complete the step. This is true for most karate styles as well as tae kwon do.
...I'm sure there a many people who would disagree with what I'm saying here. This is simply my opinion. |
Those who disagree would be wrong.
Shifting your weight to one leg enhances mobility as well as stability. With your weight transfered to one leg you can change your direction in mid step if necessary. If you step straight forward you are more commited to that step. You could still change, but not as efficiently or effectively, and ballance would possibly be compromised.
The shift of weight you talk about is an important component of power. That shift, along with a slight drop into the new stance as your structure comes into allignment and your body solidifies behind the strike at the moment it contacts the opponent, gives us power.
There are other bennififts to the crescent step. It can at any time be turned into a kick, stomp, used as a sweep (as pointed out before), trap, leg or knee check, ... . It also closes off the groin as you step.
This is a good example of why we should think about what we are doing, not just learn a bunch of moves. And think what, with small modifications, each move could accomplish. One TKD instructor I work out with regularly told me that forms are like onions, and were meant to be consumed (learned) in layers. He is a senior black belt in their school, but he still goes back and dissects their first form (I think it's Chon Gi, spelling?) to learn more about its applications. |
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