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bushido_man96
KF Sensei
KF Sensei

Joined: 31 Mar 2006
Posts: 27760
Location: Hays, KS
Styles: Taekwondo, Combat Hapkido, Aikido, GRACIE

PostPosted: Sun Jul 09, 2017 2:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I've never demoted anyone, but I have seen an instructor take a belt for a short period of time to prove a point to a higher rank.
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Alan Armstrong
Black Belt
Black Belt

Joined: 28 Feb 2016
Posts: 2204


PostPosted: Mon Jul 31, 2017 1:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

By demoting a student to a lower rank, this will improve their chances of winning, when competing in a tournament?
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Nidan Melbourne
KF Sempai
KF Sempai

Joined: 21 Aug 2013
Posts: 2202
Location: Melbourne, Australia
Styles: Goju-Ryu, BJJ, Balintawak Arnis

PostPosted: Mon Jul 31, 2017 11:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Alan Armstrong wrote:
By demoting a student to a lower rank, this will improve their chances of winning, when competing in a tournament?


Depends on their Grade and also the tournament that they enter.

Here in Australia, Australian Karate Federation Tournaments are considered the norm for Karate Tournaments. So the only time a student would get an advantage is if they end up dropping a division bracket.

For Instance we have 10-7th Kyu, 6th - 4th Kyu then 3rd kyu+ Divisions. So if a 3rd Kyu gets demoted to 4th kyu, they 'may' have an advantage if they know what their doing.

However a 1st Kyu getting demoted to 2nd Kyu would have no difference in the above scenario.
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MatsuShinshii
Black Belt
Black Belt

Joined: 15 Aug 2016
Posts: 1423
Location: Kentucky
Styles: Machimura Suidi Rokudan, Ryukyu Kenpo, Kobudo, Judo

PostPosted: Tue Aug 01, 2017 4:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Alan Armstrong wrote:
By demoting a student to a lower rank, this will improve their chances of winning, when competing in a tournament?


I am sure you are just parroting what is common in the arts Alan, but this is cheating pure and simple and exactly what I would expect from McDojo's. This is akin to telling the world that you have to enter your Shodan as Sankyu and your Sankyu as a Rokkyu because your students are not good enough to compete at those levels. What do you think your students think when you demote them so they can compete? It tells them that trophies in your dojo window mean more than quality instruction.

This is an unethical way of competing and it makes me sick that this goes on. If you can't win based on your grade, your Sensei should re-think the requirements for that grade and start producing better martial artists.

This is my problem with modern Karate. They put trophies for winning a game of patty cakes and made up "extreme" Kata over producing competent Karateka that can hold their own in their grade. This is just sick!!!!!!!!!!!!

Demote your student because they can't compete at their present grade? The instructor should take a good look in the mirror because this doesn't reflect on his/her students, it reflects on him/her. Teach the art, uphold high standards and this should never happen. Furthermore stop giving in to societies whims and stop producing BB's that can't fight their way out of a paper bag! Teach the art not some made up rendition of how you think a judge will perceive the art for a silly tournament. The art is perfect as it was created. I don't care how many years or what grade some judge is. If they can't appreciate the REAL art then stop competing and teach your students how to defend themselves.

DEMOTE YOUR STUDENTS? Just sick! Put a banner above your Dojo door that reads "sub par instruction, but don't worry, we'll demote you so you can win a trophy and I can put it into my window to attract more unsuspecting students". "No your grade and that belt around your waste doesn't actually have any meaning whatsoever but by the time your a Shodan you'll be able to beat the best Hachikyu out there". Very sad and very sick!

And people wonder why the arts have degraded and are no longer respected as a viable self defense system and so many turn to MMA. Well look no further. It's hard to cheat a real life fight. What does the instructor tell their students? "Don't worry I'll make sure we put you against an inferior thug on the streets". Just sad.
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advfhorn
Yellow Belt
Yellow Belt

Joined: 11 Jul 2013
Posts: 40


PostPosted: Tue Jan 30, 2018 9:53 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

3 years ago our Sensei temp took away a 7yr old boy's belt. the boy is also a student in elementary school with my son and I know he was lacking control both in and out of the dojo. The Mom told me later she was on board with whatever decision our Sensei had made.

Fast forward 3 years later (today) the boy is still seen as a bully in elementary school (I hear my son's school friends tell stories of him verbally and physically bullying them) and several of my son's friends that have considered our dojo to train, have gone to other dojos bc this boy still trains with us.

The more I think about it, I am glad this boy is still at our Dojo bc it means that he and his family respect our Sensei and his teachings to stick with it, and the longer he trains with us the more of chance our Sensei has a chance to teach him control. He appears to demonstrate control on the dojo floor.
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Spartacus Maximus
Black Belt
Black Belt

Joined: 01 Jun 2014
Posts: 1723

Styles: Shorin ryu

PostPosted: Wed Jan 31, 2018 9:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The less importance given to competition and comparison with others, the more insignificant ranks, grades or belts matter and the more one can concentrate on developing skills.

The abilities and skills a practicionner’s has is directly proportional to the time spent training and the efforts made. Most important of all is for both the instructor and the student to be honest. Easier said than done, but if an instructor evaluates accurately and honestly a student should be aware of exactly what is or is not possible. Nothing else will count if said martial artist ever has to use said skills. In case of failure the result depends on the the situation. Anything from minor shame to death and evrything in between.
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