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Karateka63
Yellow Belt
Joined: 07 Jun 2011
Posts: 35
Location: Reynoldsburg
Styles: Matsubayashi Ryu
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 Posted: Fri Jun 24, 2011 11:05 pm Post subject: how do I stop this :( |
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ok there is this really confusing thing that happened that doesn't happen often because I don't get into fights often but ever since I got into this one fight a couple months back I was wondering if anyone could shed some light on this. Whenever my body and mind felt threatened by this person my body and mind seemed to want to abandon everything I learned in Martial Arts and wanted to go on some sort of Auto-Pilot, that consists of me fighting carelessly. When my body was in this mind set, I seemed to have fought with myself, telling myself as the bully is threatening me, or the people I care for,
"fighting carelessly is foolish and reckless I've known this for years, so why is my body reacting this way now?? (thinking this before and after the fight)
Ever since I got into this certain fight, I find the auto-pilot is not going away and every time I try to fight it my body and mind seem to counter by making me feel like my martial arts is a waste of time and that I should abandon it all together, and lately I find myself fighting with myself constantly telling myself,
"THERE IS LIVING PROOF BY THE THOUSANDS!, THAT MARTIAL ARTS IS EFFECTIVE AND FIGHTING CARELESSLY WILL GET YOU NOWHERE!! I AM LIVING PROOF OF THIS EFFECTIVENESS, AND THE CARELESS ARE PROOF OF THEIR OWN DEMISE!!"
(there is more to this story cuz it really only involves one fight that somehow got my body and mind fighting with themselves.  help???
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Martial Arts is 90% Mental and Only 10% Physical. |
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Snake
Yellow Belt
Joined: 02 Aug 2010
Posts: 33
Location: London
Styles: Previously Muay Thai. Now Kyokushin Kaikan.
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| Posted: Sun Jun 26, 2011 12:14 pm Post subject: Re: how do I stop this :( |
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| Karateka63 wrote: |
ok there is this really confusing thing that happened that doesn't happen often because I don't get into fights often but ever since I got into this one fight a couple months back I was wondering if anyone could shed some light on this. Whenever my body and mind felt threatened by this person my body and mind seemed to want to abandon everything I learned in Martial Arts and wanted to go on some sort of Auto-Pilot, that consists of me fighting carelessly. When my body was in this mind set, I seemed to have fought with myself, telling myself as the bully is threatening me, or the people I care for,
"fighting carelessly is foolish and reckless I've known this for years, so why is my body reacting this way now?? (thinking this before and after the fight)
Ever since I got into this certain fight, I find the auto-pilot is not going away and every time I try to fight it my body and mind seem to counter by making me feel like my martial arts is a waste of time and that I should abandon it all together, and lately I find myself fighting with myself constantly telling myself,
"THERE IS LIVING PROOF BY THE THOUSANDS!, THAT MARTIAL ARTS IS EFFECTIVE AND FIGHTING CARELESSLY WILL GET YOU NOWHERE!! I AM LIVING PROOF OF THIS EFFECTIVENESS, AND THE CARELESS ARE PROOF OF THEIR OWN DEMISE!!"
(there is more to this story cuz it really only involves one fight that somehow got my body and mind fighting with themselves. help??? |
I'm sure there will be others here better geared to answering your question, however I'll add my own ideas to this.
I think the reason you feel the way you do is because, as you said, you don't get in to fights that often; and so both your mind and body are still in a state of nervousness and doubt. I'm assuming the fight wasn't an easy one for you.
It's not uncommon for our bodies to kick in to a state of "auto-pilot", because very often, we give in to fear and panic. This fear and panic isn't something very often emulated in the dojo, and so your mind will treat an actual fight differently from normal dojo sparring. What you end up fighting with isn't a focused mind, but on instinct instead (it's like naturally curling up into foetal position when on the floor whilst being attacked).
Anyway, I say, give it time. Allow the anxieties to pass. Re-introduce yourself into training slowly, and if you find as though you can't do that, you may perhaps either want to discuss the situation with your sensei (in which case he may make adjustments to lessons to provide for such real fight scenarios e.g. by introducing pressure testing); or you may want to look at other styles which do incorporate such methods of training (I know Krav Maga is notorious for it).
Whatever it is that you decide to do though, I would definitely say, don't give in to fear! Don't allow this bad experience to put you off from training permanently. Be persistent, look for alternatives; and if you decide that taking a martial art isn't right for you, please make this decision with a clear mind.
P.S- I'm sorry for what happened to you. You seem like a nice enough person; it's a shame that these things happen.
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"What is a wedding? Webster's defines a wedding as the process of removing weeds from ones garden." |
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Karateka63
Yellow Belt
Joined: 07 Jun 2011
Posts: 35
Location: Reynoldsburg
Styles: Matsubayashi Ryu
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| Posted: Sun Jun 26, 2011 4:06 pm Post subject: Re: how do I stop this :( |
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| Snake wrote: |
| Karateka63 wrote: |
ok there is this really confusing thing that happened that doesn't happen often because I don't get into fights often but ever since I got into this one fight a couple months back I was wondering if anyone could shed some light on this. Whenever my body and mind felt threatened by this person my body and mind seemed to want to abandon everything I learned in Martial Arts and wanted to go on some sort of Auto-Pilot, that consists of me fighting carelessly. When my body was in this mind set, I seemed to have fought with myself, telling myself as the bully is threatening me, or the people I care for,
"fighting carelessly is foolish and reckless I've known this for years, so why is my body reacting this way now?? (thinking this before and after the fight)
Ever since I got into this certain fight, I find the auto-pilot is not going away and every time I try to fight it my body and mind seem to counter by making me feel like my martial arts is a waste of time and that I should abandon it all together, and lately I find myself fighting with myself constantly telling myself,
"THERE IS LIVING PROOF BY THE THOUSANDS!, THAT MARTIAL ARTS IS EFFECTIVE AND FIGHTING CARELESSLY WILL GET YOU NOWHERE!! I AM LIVING PROOF OF THIS EFFECTIVENESS, AND THE CARELESS ARE PROOF OF THEIR OWN DEMISE!!"
(there is more to this story cuz it really only involves one fight that somehow got my body and mind fighting with themselves. help??? |
I'm sure there will be others here better geared to answering your question, however I'll add my own ideas to this.
I think the reason you feel the way you do is because, as you said, you don't get in to fights that often; and so both your mind and body are still in a state of nervousness and doubt. I'm assuming the fight wasn't an easy one for you.
It's not uncommon for our bodies to kick in to a state of "auto-pilot", because very often, we give in to fear and panic. This fear and panic isn't something very often emulated in the dojo, and so your mind will treat an actual fight differently from normal dojo sparring. What you end up fighting with isn't a focused mind, but on instinct instead (it's like naturally curling up into foetal position when on the floor whilst being attacked).
Anyway, I say, give it time. Allow the anxieties to pass. Re-introduce yourself into training slowly, and if you find as though you can't do that, you may perhaps either want to discuss the situation with your sensei (in which case he may make adjustments to lessons to provide for such real fight scenarios e.g. by introducing pressure testing); or you may want to look at other styles which do incorporate such methods of training (I know Krav Maga is notorious for it).
Whatever it is that you decide to do though, I would definitely say, don't give in to fear! Don't allow this bad experience to put you off from training permanently. Be persistent, look for alternatives; and if you decide that taking a martial art isn't right for you, please make this decision with a clear mind.
P.S- I'm sorry for what happened to you. You seem like a nice enough person; it's a shame that these things happen. |
oh I didn't get my butt kicked but my body n mind did throw me off. Lemme clear things up and make thing brief yet not vague. I had been dating this girl for 2 years and before those 2 years we were vary good friends, things went well for this girl and I for about a year and a half and when she broke up with me......a week later after our break up she got with another guy, this hurt but I could handle it and didn't judge her on it, after all ever since the break up we were trying to stay friends.....or I was anyway, soon after she got this boyfriend, she started comparing her new bf with me. I told her to kindly stop as I am moving on and it already hurts enough to randomly run into you guys. she stopped for about 3 weeks then easily picked up on it again. I didn't say anything about it for 1 month and one day, I told her via txt in a calm mature way to please stop if u want this friendship to work please stop comparing him and I.
She responded by bringing her bf over to the library and threatened me in the kids section of the library and with her seeing me hurt she left the library holding his hand and.........something in me snapped, I went outside dropped my stuff walked up to them and as im walking up to them the inside of me is screaming, Hes 16.......THIS IS A PUBLIC AREA! JAIL, HE IS A MINOR!!,
apart of me didn't seem to care about martial arts or anything all I wanted to do in that moment was plant his face on the concrete. but....when I got up to him and tried to punch him in the face my ex kept stepping in his way yelling stop and for some reason when I heard that my body slowed down and my chest started getting super hot, got sick of my ex stepping in the way so for some reason my instincts told me to punch his hip bone so I did, he then got me in a headlock and I pulled a Bruce lee and bit him and didn't let go till I heard someone coming to break the fight up......Id have to say if it weren't for my size ill prolly be in jail, the guy who broke the fight up thought I was 15.
I kept my mouth shut and went back inside but ever since that incident, not only is my heart in pain but my self confidence within my martial arts feels somewhat crippled, perhaps its because im mad at myself for showing weakness. letting someone get to me because only I control the actions I carry out and when this guy provoked me along with the anguish of seeing my ex walk away with him I fell for it. I hate myself for this mistake, no matter how many push-ups I do I cant rid myself of the guilt, I feel useless and I feel like a disgrace to Martial Arts, I feel like I went behind Martial Arts back and hindered my honor. 
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Martial Arts is 90% Mental and Only 10% Physical. |
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MasterPain
Black Belt
Joined: 26 Oct 2010
Posts: 1949
Location: Parts Unknown
Styles: Bujin Bugei Jutsu, Backyard Kali, Satsui no Hadou
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| Posted: Sun Jun 26, 2011 4:25 pm Post subject: |
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How intense is your sparring? How closely does it simulate a real fight? If you only do light contact, ask your training partners if they would like to pick it up a notch. You don't want the first time you feel heavy pressure to be in a combative situation. A good sword is forged by putting it in a furnace and beating it with a hammer. Warriors are not forged in their comfort zone. Auto-pilot and mushin are very similar, they can be a good thing, so long as you keep your cool.
Do you include any grappling? If not, crosstrain. If there is not good instruction available to you, maybe there is a highschool wrestler at your gym who would like a sparring partner. If your dojo has an open mat day, it would be a good opportunity to wrestle. Mas Oyama was a dan grade Judo player. The old masters crosstrained to fill in the gaps. Seems like a valuable tradition.
Another thing I'd like to point out is that many martial artists have a romanticized idea of how a fight should look. Fights are nasty, violent things. Technique will not all be pretty and clean. It's chaos. The idea of randori is to add chaos, and a fight is even more so.
All that being said, the point of a self defense art is to survive as unharmed as possible. The fact that you are on the internet discussing your feelings about this fight says that you were more successful than you give yourself credit for.
Edit: just read your story. interesting.
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My fists bleed death. -Akuma
Last edited by MasterPain on Sun Jun 26, 2011 7:21 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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JCavin
Yellow Belt
Joined: 05 Aug 2009
Posts: 88
Location: Fayetteville, Arkansas
Styles: Kenpo
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| Posted: Sun Jun 26, 2011 5:16 pm Post subject: |
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Sounds like a case of your fight or flight instinct kicking in. Which is normal. Experience is what it boils down to. You don't have enough experience in sparring that emulates combat.
Just spar more, as realistically as possible. Your sparring should be giving you a similar feeling; you should be nervous to spar. If you aren't nervous to spar, you need to step it up or play with someone bigger and better.
The hard truth is that this feeling never goes away. You just learn to deal with it.
Once you've been doing it for a while your mind will start to use the techniques you've been taught and been practicing.
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-James Cavin- |
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joesteph
Black Belt
Joined: 11 Aug 2008
Posts: 2753
Location: USA
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| Posted: Mon Jun 27, 2011 3:45 pm Post subject: |
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| MasterPain wrote: |
How intense is your sparring? How closely does it simulate a real fight? If you only do light contact, ask your training partners if they would like to pick it up a notch. You don't want the first time you feel heavy pressure to be in a combative situation.
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I like this advice, but ask: Do you do contact at all? I have a red belt (3rd gup) in Soo Bahk Do, but it's all non-contact. Good for cardio and just to have an activity. It's perfect for my children till they grow older (they're age 9) and adults who don't want contact, but not conducive to actual fighting.
When I took a break from Soo Bahk Do and trained at a fighting school, I wore gear and fought with moderate ("controlled") contact, and what I'd been doing non-contact got me whacked around. Don't misunderstand; no one at the second school was trying to use me for target practice. At the second school, having moderate contact, I got pointers and fought rather well for my age (last year, when I was fifty-eight) against teens and guys in their 20s.
Whenever I could, I've tried to pick up what's truly self-defense oriented. I've found YouTube and Iain Abernethy videos that opened up what self-defense is about. It's very hard to do self-defense moves properly if not practiced, but just a few (a fence, to parry/block, punch to the nose, kick to the knee) that are practiced with a partner till you feel proficient are all you need.
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~ Joe
Vee Arnis Jitsu/JuJitsu |
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Groinstrike
Pre-Black Belt
Joined: 26 Oct 2010
Posts: 923
Location: Richland County
Styles: Bujin Bugei Jutsu, Krav Maga, Jeet Kune Do, BJJ M
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| Posted: Mon Jun 27, 2011 10:56 pm Post subject: |
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| MasterPain wrote: |
How intense is your sparring? How closely does it simulate a real fight? If you only do light contact, ask your training partners if they would like to pick it up a notch. You don't want the first time you feel heavy pressure to be in a combative situation. A good sword is forged by putting it in a furnace and beating it with a hammer. Warriors are not forged in their comfort zone. Auto-pilot and mushin are very similar, they can be a good thing, so long as you keep your cool.
Do you include any grappling? If not, crosstrain. If there is not good instruction available to you, maybe there is a highschool wrestler at your gym who would like a sparring partner. If your dojo has an open mat day, it would be a good opportunity to wrestle. Mas Oyama was a dan grade Judo player. The old masters crosstrained to fill in the gaps. Seems like a valuable tradition.
Another thing I'd like to point out is that many martial artists have a romanticized idea of how a fight should look. Fights are nasty, violent things. Technique will not all be pretty and clean. It's chaos. The idea of randori is to add chaos, and a fight is even more so.
All that being said, the point of a self defense art is to survive as unharmed as possible. The fact that you are on the internet discussing your feelings about this fight says that you were more successful than you give yourself credit for.
Edit: just read your story. interesting. |
There is a thread in the general martial arts forum that asked "are you afraid of your sensei" My two cents is that there should be a certain level of fear when practicing a martial art. This way you must learn handle fear, fear restricts actions. You must also learn to handle other emotions, such as anger. Anger can lead to "tunnel vision" or "fighting recklessly". When i first started martial arts, i was knocked out cold approximately 3-5 times in the first year and yes i was scared to death.
Fighting will get you hurt, if you're going to fight you must accept this as a possibility. As Masterpain said, fights are not pretty, crisp, clean displays of technique like the movies would have you believe. They are dirty, snarling affairs full of blood, skin, teeth, hair, and other assorted sinew.
By all means you should crosstrain, maybe check out a mma gym for some heavier contact. Check out a combative art such as Krav Maga to learn to deal with the very real reactions you're body has to an extreme situation.
What happened to you is that your body had a very normal reaction, and you reacted in a very normal way. Don't feel guilty, don't feel ashamed. If you do, you are just wasting your time. Learn from your experience. |
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Karateka63
Yellow Belt
Joined: 07 Jun 2011
Posts: 35
Location: Reynoldsburg
Styles: Matsubayashi Ryu
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| Posted: Tue Jun 28, 2011 3:18 am Post subject: |
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guys I have to admit, in all my experience in MA Ive only done light and medium contact sparring, I think this is because most of other the other students where 3 years younger with parents watching from the sidelines, only time I ever did medium contact was in tournaments and Ive been to about 7 tournaments in MA all together. I did spar back in TKD and Shorin Ryu but since my dojo had to relocate and my family and I recovering from an eviction Ive had to shift my focus on getting prepared for college and getting a car for transportation.
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Martial Arts is 90% Mental and Only 10% Physical. |
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Karateka63
Yellow Belt
Joined: 07 Jun 2011
Posts: 35
Location: Reynoldsburg
Styles: Matsubayashi Ryu
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| Posted: Tue Jun 28, 2011 4:13 am Post subject: |
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just for reference, Ive always known the difference between real fights and movie stunts lol just look guys I guess im weirded out by this because I can control my rage vary well.....its vary hard to make me mad and ive only lost (partial) control a couple times in my short life but and those times I was young and protecting my mother and older brother as well as I from getting beaten from multiple relatives on a daily basis. so I have taken hard beatings by multiple relatives just to protect my mother and older bro.
The story a couple posts up is the vary first time anger has ever consumed me in an instant without wanting to protect someone.
as soon as I saw my ex walk away with the boy who threatened me, It was like my body took control of itself, I was thinking about the crime I was about to commit but it was like part of me didnt care.
to cut things short guys ok look most of my childhood I grew up around abusive people but I took after my mother who wasn't abusive and I hated my relatives for abusing my mom bro and I,
I got out of that at age 10 and lemme tell you guys,........I Hate It When My Anger Controls Me I Go Through Great Lengths Just To Control It,
When Anger controls me it makes me feel like im one of them, those abusive scum of the earth. Its why every time Ive ever lash out at anyone I always end up bawling afterwords.
but if Im protecting someone I love and care for things like this never happen to me I usually have some control and can and have injured or broke up fights without injuring all whilst controlling the flow of what I do in those situations this was the first time I ever lost full control and ill admit Im scared becouse this is new to me and I dont ever want something like this to control me.
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Martial Arts is 90% Mental and Only 10% Physical. |
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bushido_man96
KF Sensei
Joined: 31 Mar 2006
Posts: 30188
Location: Hays, KS
Styles: Taekwondo, Combat Hapkido, Aikido, GRACIE, Police Krav Maga, SPEAR
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| Posted: Wed Jul 06, 2011 9:44 pm Post subject: |
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It sounds to me like the "flight or fight" response kicked in, and that you haven't trained under those conditions much. Look into what is called adrenal-stress training. Basically, what will help you out here, is getting you training environment set so that you are pushed into this "feeling" you had when you had your fight. By doing this, you will learn to better control yourself when this happens, and override your body's natural response a bit.
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on the post.
