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Himokiri Karate
Green Belt
Green Belt

Joined: 13 Aug 2009
Posts: 391

Styles: Boxing, Korean Karate

PostPosted: Sun Jun 19, 2022 9:55 pm    Post subject: Ki training in Karate? Reply with quote

I have studied Chinese, Japanese and Korean martial arts. I have noticed some styles are really in the concept of ki/qi that comes from prana from Yoga and Kalaripayattu. This led to internal martial arts in China which became Kung Fu and then it made its way to Japan.


That being said, the only time that ki training is discussed seems to be from the ninjitsu dojos and not so much karate. Are there any karate dojos that explore this aspect?
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Zaine
Black Belt
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Joined: 31 Aug 2005
Posts: 2012
Location: Dallas, TX
Styles: Matsumura-Seito, Shobayashi-Ryu, Shudokan, Long Fist, American Street Karate, Southern Mantis, HEMA

PostPosted: Mon Jun 20, 2022 7:15 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yes, famously people like George Dillman preach ki and "demonstrate" it on students. Doing no-touch knockouts and the like. Conmen will always be a part of karate (like everything) and people like Dillman will always exist as long as there are people who want to believe.

Otherwise, there are some "legit" dojos that teach ki, but not in a mystical way. Ki can be taught in our breathing techniques, as a metaphor for how we generate power, for focusing our energy in certain parts of our bodies as we move. Some have moved away from calling it ki, due to the stigma surrounding it in martial arts circles. My dojo talks about the concept of "tight/loose" instead of ki. While learning Sanchin, the instructor used ki as short hand for the focus of breathing techniques and dynamic tension. None of these people believe that they can knock someone out with ki (we're not Jedi/Sith, however much I want to be), but believe that ki as spirit and energy a useful concept within the teachings of martial arts.
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LionsDen
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Joined: 06 May 2022
Posts: 177


PostPosted: Mon Jun 20, 2022 7:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Only mcdojos and frauds do Ďkií training.
Serious dojos donít
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GS718Trek
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Joined: 08 Oct 2014
Posts: 152


PostPosted: Mon Jun 20, 2022 7:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
Otherwise, there are some "legit" dojos that teach ki, but not in a mystical way. Ki can be taught in our breathing techniques, as a metaphor for how we generate power, for focusing our energy in certain parts of our bodies as we move. Some have moved away from calling it ki, due to the stigma surrounding it in martial arts circles. My dojo talks about the concept of "tight/loose" instead of ki.


*This*
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GS718Trek
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Joined: 08 Oct 2014
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 20, 2022 7:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Pure bodily mechanics; no ki or supernatural mist of energy
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Miick 11
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Joined: 01 Jan 2021
Posts: 128


PostPosted: Wed Jun 22, 2022 6:13 pm    Post subject: Re: Ki training in Karate? Reply with quote

Himokiri Karate wrote:
I have studied Chinese, Japanese and Korean martial arts. I have noticed some styles are really in the concept of ki/qi that comes from prana from Yoga and Kalaripayattu. This led to internal martial arts in China which became Kung Fu and then it made its way to Japan.


That being said, the only time that ki training is discussed seems to be from the ninjitsu dojos and not so much karate. Are there any karate dojos that explore this aspect?


I dont run 'dojo' as such but I have used it as a valuable tool to help some get around issues they have had with training .

But I see it as a 'visualization tool' to help align , balance, root, extend , etc .

Eg , one very slight woman was easily lifted by two strong guys, but when I got her to visualize certain 'ki aspects ' ( ) they had great trouble lifting her - weird thing was, they did get her feet little off the ground but then nothing - the people watching could actually see the guys straining, their muscles bulging, but nope . Eventually she opened her eyes, got a surprise that stopped her concentration and up she went with ease .

Most observing where amazed and saw it as some mystical energy , but they knew little of 'multiple body mechanics interaction' .
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Zaine
Black Belt
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Joined: 31 Aug 2005
Posts: 2012
Location: Dallas, TX
Styles: Matsumura-Seito, Shobayashi-Ryu, Shudokan, Long Fist, American Street Karate, Southern Mantis, HEMA

PostPosted: Fri Jun 24, 2022 7:48 am    Post subject: Re: Ki training in Karate? Reply with quote

Miick 11 wrote:
But I see it as a 'visualization tool' to help align , balance, root, extend , etc .


Precisely. Ki is an easy concept to grasp and as a visualization tool it can't be beat. Analogies work best when your audience has a solid understanding of a concept. If people already have a rough understanding of what Ki is, even if their understanding is erroneous, then why not use it when explaining concepts that are abstract to people who aren't used to Martial Arts?
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aurik
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Joined: 08 Nov 2016
Posts: 312
Location: Denver, CO
Styles: Shuri-Ryu, Uechi-Ryu

PostPosted: Fri Jun 24, 2022 12:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

We discuss the concept of "power" and "energy" as students start approaching shodan, but it isn't a mystical energy force that unites the galaxy. We discuss energy in the form of "flow", and how the energy of one sequence can be transferred to the next sequence and the like.

The other stuff is just way too hokey for me.
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Himokiri Karate
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Joined: 13 Aug 2009
Posts: 391

Styles: Boxing, Korean Karate

PostPosted: Tue Jul 05, 2022 8:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

LionsDen wrote:
Only mcdojos and frauds do Ďkií training.
Serious dojos donít



This post really breaks my heart. I do not know how to respond to this. Ki is the essence of life, in yoga, its called a prana, in kung fu, its called qi and in Japanese martial arts, its called Ki.

If someone were to read your post and accept it as the truth, then it would discredit, yoga and Chinese/Japanese arts that many people have practiced and found the practice to enrich their soul.
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Tyler
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Joined: 16 Mar 2022
Posts: 53
Location: Narita,Japan
Styles: Shorin-Ryu, Kobudo

PostPosted: Tue Jul 05, 2022 9:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Himokiri Karate wrote:
LionsDen wrote:
Only mcdojos and frauds do Ďkií training.
Serious dojos donít



This post really breaks my heart. I do not know how to respond to this. Ki is the essence of life, in yoga, its called a prana, in kung fu, its called qi and in Japanese martial arts, its called Ki.

If someone were to read your post and accept it as the truth, then it would discredit, yoga and Chinese/Japanese arts that many people have practiced and found the practice to enrich their soul.


Agreed!

Whether it is singing, Yoga or anything in life...........even Stress, Breathing is the most essential thing to align your next movement including the effectiveness of the power.

Breathing is Life, Power and everything that exists!

Without breathing properly mistakes will surely be made in all aspects of our mere existense and affect outcomes in all things we do!
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