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username19853
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 11, 2023 11:44 pm    Post subject: Kihon kata of karate Reply with quote

What do you think are THE kihon katas of ALL of karate?

I recently came across a post that suggested the top 3 Kihon Katas of karate were Naihanchi, Sanchin, and Seisan (various versions). I loved the combination of these 3 and started that “only the essentials” game.

Say… top five?
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Sailor Sindbad
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Joined: 05 Dec 2019
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Styles: Kobayashi Shorin-ryu, Shotokan, Brazilian Jiu Jitsu

PostPosted: Wed Apr 12, 2023 7:28 am    Post subject: Re: Kihon kata of karate Reply with quote

scohen0300 wrote:
What do you think are THE kihon katas of ALL of karate?

I recently came across a post that suggested the top 3 Kihon Katas of karate were Naihanchi, Sanchin, and Seisan (various versions). I loved the combination of these 3 and started that “only the essentials” game.

Say… top five?


You must be speaking of Goju-ryu.

In Kobyashi Shorin-ryu, if you say "kihon katas," you'd be referring to the three first katas of the style that were developed by Chosin Chibana (i.e., Kihon Ippon, Kihon Ippon, and Kihon Sanbon). Seisan wasn't taught by Shugoro Nazakato, so the Shorin-ryu of his lineage (Shorinkan and its offshoots) isn't learned there (I personally think it should be added, but I left at 6th kyu, so my opinion doesn't matter). My understanding of Sanchin is that it's more of a Naha-te thing.

Personally, I would say there are only two: Naihanchi/Tekki and Pinan/Heian. They're the only katas practiced by ALL Okinawan and Japanese styles of karate. Even Tang Soo Do / Soo Bakh Do practice them, with different names.
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sensei8
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 12, 2023 8:47 am    Post subject: Re: Kihon kata of karate Reply with quote

Sailor Sindbad wrote:

Personally, I would say there are only two: Naihanchi/Tekki and Pinan/Heian. They're the only katas practiced by ALL Okinawan and Japanese styles of karate. Even Tang Soo Do / Soo Bakh Do practice them, with different names.

I wholeheartedly agree.



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Fat Cobra
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 12, 2023 10:07 am    Post subject: Re: Kihon kata of karate Reply with quote

sensei8 wrote:
Sailor Sindbad wrote:

Personally, I would say there are only two: Naihanchi/Tekki and Pinan/Heian. They're the only katas practiced by ALL Okinawan and Japanese styles of karate. Even Tang Soo Do / Soo Bakh Do practice them, with different names.

I wholeheartedly agree.




I second that opinion!
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Zaine
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 12, 2023 10:19 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think that I would add the Pinans and Empi Take/Iwa to your list. The Pinan series introduce a lot of concepts important for later kata. The Empi series uses elbows and teaches you to become comfortable with doing so in self-defense situations.
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aurik
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 12, 2023 12:51 pm    Post subject: Re: Kihon kata of karate Reply with quote

Sailor Sindbad wrote:


Personally, I would say there are only two: Naihanchi/Tekki and Pinan/Heian. They're the only katas practiced by ALL Okinawan and Japanese styles of karate. Even Tang Soo Do / Soo Bakh Do practice them, with different names.


I'd qualify that with "MOST" Okinawan and Japanese styles of karate. Uechi-Ryu does not practice either of those katas. If you're talking about Uechi-Ryu, the 3 kata that could be considered "kihon katas" would be Sanchin, Seisan, and sanseiryu, because those are the 3 original kata that Kanbun Uechi learned in China, and form the foundation of the style. All of the other kata were developed as "bridging kata" to help students learn the main 3.
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Wastelander
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 12, 2023 1:04 pm    Post subject: Re: Kihon kata of karate Reply with quote

Sailor Sindbad wrote:


Personally, I would say there are only two: Naihanchi/Tekki and Pinan/Heian. They're the only katas practiced by ALL Okinawan and Japanese styles of karate. Even Tang Soo Do / Soo Bakh Do practice them, with different names.


Technically, that's not accurate. The vast majority of Shuri-Te-based systems do practice Naihanchi/Tekki and Pinan/Heian, but there are some that do not--some branches of Matsumura Seito, Kojo-Ryu, and KishimotoDi, for example, don't practice the Pinan/Heian kata. Additionally, Naha-Te-based systems, like Goju-Ryu, To'on-Ryu, and Uechi-Ryu, don't practice them.

scohen0300 wrote:
What do you think are THE kihon katas of ALL of karate?

I recently came across a post that suggested the top 3 Kihon Katas of karate were Naihanchi, Sanchin, and Seisan (various versions). I loved the combination of these 3 and started that “only the essentials” game.

Say… top five?


If we want to talk about the most widely-practiced foundational kata across all styles of karate, the answer is actually Seisan--this is the one kata found in more styles than any other, statistically. Of course, I happen to practice two systems that DON'T practice it, so I get to be an outlier in that statistic. Naihanchi, Sanchin, and Gekisai are the other top most-practiced kata, and the Pinan/Heian series falls after those.
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Sailor Sindbad
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Joined: 05 Dec 2019
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Styles: Kobayashi Shorin-ryu, Shotokan, Brazilian Jiu Jitsu

PostPosted: Thu Apr 13, 2023 7:17 am    Post subject: Re: Kihon kata of karate Reply with quote

Wastelander wrote:

Technically, that's not accurate. The vast majority of Shuri-Te-based systems do practice Naihanchi/Tekki and Pinan/Heian, but there are some that do not--some branches of Matsumura Seito, Kojo-Ryu, and KishimotoDi, for example, don't practice the Pinan/Heian kata. Additionally, Naha-Te-based systems, like Goju-Ryu, To'on-Ryu, and Uechi-Ryu, don't practice them.



Ah, you know what? I thought Goju-ryu practiced Pinans, because I've seen videos of Rika Usami performing them. Did a little diggging, and found out that she also practices Shito-ryu, so it all makes sense now.
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KumiteDutchie
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 14, 2023 1:51 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

As a Shotokan nut, I'd say Ten No Kata, the Taikyoku series, and Heian Shodan. From Heian Nidan onward the techniques are a bit beyond basic kihon imo.
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Sailor Sindbad
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 14, 2023 6:34 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

KumiteDutchie wrote:
As a Shotokan nut, I'd say Ten No Kata, the Taikyoku series, and Heian Shodan. From Heian Nidan onward the techniques are a bit beyond basic kihon imo.


So here's what I've seen. My dojo is ISKF, and we don't do the Taikyokus. We start immediately with Heian Shodan. My understanding is that this is also the case with SKIF, and JKA only has Taikyoku Shodan.

The Shorin-ryu dojo that I left has five Taikyokus (I hear some places have more), though, my understanding is that beyond Nidan, the Taikyoku katas are totally different between associations.

Personally? I think Taikyokus are a waste. Everything in the Taikyoku series is captured in the Pinan/Heian series.

With the exception of the hammer fist (which is easy to learn) all moves in Heian Shodan are part of white belt kihon in Shotokan, so I don't see the point in Taikyokus.
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