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crash
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Joined: 21 Jan 2003
Posts: 143

Styles: karate,

PostPosted: Tue May 31, 2022 10:02 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

bushido_man96 wrote:
crash wrote:
LionsDen wrote:
crash wrote:
lets see, there are boxing coaches who have never fought, some who fought amatuer but never made it to the pro level, and a few who never fought at all, there are military instructors who never went to war, the list goes on, academia has its place, even in the combat arena
and the militaries that have people teaching with no combat experience tend to be trash at war when they finally get a taste of itÖ.thereís a pretty good example of that going on right nowÖ

Iíve never seen a boxing coach who didnít have at least a few fights/smokers on their record.
How successful are those coaches?



angelo dundee never fought, he was ali's coach
terry edwards never fought, yet was an excellent coach
cus demato, tysons coach, 0-2 record
there are many others who either never fought or werent very good, but knew the mechanics of fighting at a higher level than most actual fighters.
as far as the military is concerned, most of the leaders come from officer candidate school and other leadership courses/schools within the military. before the middle eastern conflicts the US military had reached a point where most leaders had not seen any combat, yet we were still one of the greatest militaries in the world. even now there are many, many, leaders within our own units who have not seen war. yet are fully capable of leading and teaching the units they command.


How many other great fighters did they "produce?"

When you get into the professional levels of competition, it's hard to tell which coaches are good, and which ones are made to look good by the talent of their athletes.



this is true, would Ali have been as good or better with a different coach?, would Tyson?. that is something we may never know. every coach brings something different to the table. sometimes something so simple that another may not bring that may make all the difference in the world to that one fighter as an individual. i heard someone quote a statement from an old "master" once that most never really consider fully. but have seen it come to be a gamechanger more than once through my years in this game. the quote is, "move, just move. if you stop your dead", everyone always wants to break down the movements of Kata, or what is a block and what is a punch, or how do you transition from this to this, etc.... but ive seen point fighters and sport karate fighters win real fights far more often than someone who gets caught up in all the technical stuff, why? because they knew how to move. how to keep the opponent off balance and on the defense... this isnt rocket science guys, the ones who can relax and see what is in front of them and react accordingly are the ones who will be ahead of the game, those who freeze, become stagnant or panic will always be behind and playing catch-up., good coaches, teachers, instructors in any field who can teach that and make their students see the big picture are always the ones who have a higher success rate.
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LionsDen
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Joined: 06 May 2022
Posts: 177


PostPosted: Tue May 31, 2022 10:14 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

crash wrote:
bushido_man96 wrote:
crash wrote:
LionsDen wrote:
crash wrote:
lets see, there are boxing coaches who have never fought, some who fought amatuer but never made it to the pro level, and a few who never fought at all, there are military instructors who never went to war, the list goes on, academia has its place, even in the combat arena
and the militaries that have people teaching with no combat experience tend to be trash at war when they finally get a taste of itÖ.thereís a pretty good example of that going on right nowÖ

Iíve never seen a boxing coach who didnít have at least a few fights/smokers on their record.
How successful are those coaches?



angelo dundee never fought, he was ali's coach
terry edwards never fought, yet was an excellent coach
cus demato, tysons coach, 0-2 record
there are many others who either never fought or werent very good, but knew the mechanics of fighting at a higher level than most actual fighters.
as far as the military is concerned, most of the leaders come from officer candidate school and other leadership courses/schools within the military. before the middle eastern conflicts the US military had reached a point where most leaders had not seen any combat, yet we were still one of the greatest militaries in the world. even now there are many, many, leaders within our own units who have not seen war. yet are fully capable of leading and teaching the units they command.


How many other great fighters did they "produce?"

When you get into the professional levels of competition, it's hard to tell which coaches are good, and which ones are made to look good by the talent of their athletes.



this is true, would Ali have been as good or better with a different coach?, would Tyson?. that is something we may never know. every coach brings something different to the table. sometimes something so simple that another may not bring that may make all the difference in the world to that one fighter as an individual. i heard someone quote a statement from an old "master" once that most never really consider fully. but have seen it come to be a gamechanger more than once through my years in this game. the quote is, "move, just move. if you stop your dead", everyone always wants to break down the movements of Kata, or what is a block and what is a punch, or how do you transition from this to this, etc.... but ive seen point fighters and sport karate fighters win real fights far more often than someone who gets caught up in all the technical stuff, why? because they knew how to move. how to keep the opponent off balance and on the defense... this isnt rocket science guys, the ones who can relax and see what is in front of them and react accordingly are the ones who will be ahead of the game, those who freeze, become stagnant or panic will always be behind and playing catch-up., good coaches, teachers, instructors in any field who can teach that and make their students see the big picture are always the ones who have a higher success rate.
and how does one get past the freeze reaction if itís their natural reaction? Thereís really only one way, and even that isnít guaranteed.
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crash
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Joined: 21 Jan 2003
Posts: 143

Styles: karate,

PostPosted: Tue May 31, 2022 4:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

LionsDen wrote:
crash wrote:
bushido_man96 wrote:
crash wrote:
LionsDen wrote:
crash wrote:
lets see, there are boxing coaches who have never fought, some who fought amatuer but never made it to the pro level, and a few who never fought at all, there are military instructors who never went to war, the list goes on, academia has its place, even in the combat arena
and the militaries that have people teaching with no combat experience tend to be trash at war when they finally get a taste of itÖ.thereís a pretty good example of that going on right nowÖ

Iíve never seen a boxing coach who didnít have at least a few fights/smokers on their record.
How successful are those coaches?



angelo dundee never fought, he was ali's coach
terry edwards never fought, yet was an excellent coach
cus demato, tysons coach, 0-2 record
there are many others who either never fought or werent very good, but knew the mechanics of fighting at a higher level than most actual fighters.
as far as the military is concerned, most of the leaders come from officer candidate school and other leadership courses/schools within the military. before the middle eastern conflicts the US military had reached a point where most leaders had not seen any combat, yet we were still one of the greatest militaries in the world. even now there are many, many, leaders within our own units who have not seen war. yet are fully capable of leading and teaching the units they command.


How many other great fighters did they "produce?"

When you get into the professional levels of competition, it's hard to tell which coaches are good, and which ones are made to look good by the talent of their athletes.



this is true, would Ali have been as good or better with a different coach?, would Tyson?. that is something we may never know. every coach brings something different to the table. sometimes something so simple that another may not bring that may make all the difference in the world to that one fighter as an individual. i heard someone quote a statement from an old "master" once that most never really consider fully. but have seen it come to be a gamechanger more than once through my years in this game. the quote is, "move, just move. if you stop your dead", everyone always wants to break down the movements of Kata, or what is a block and what is a punch, or how do you transition from this to this, etc.... but ive seen point fighters and sport karate fighters win real fights far more often than someone who gets caught up in all the technical stuff, why? because they knew how to move. how to keep the opponent off balance and on the defense... this isnt rocket science guys, the ones who can relax and see what is in front of them and react accordingly are the ones who will be ahead of the game, those who freeze, become stagnant or panic will always be behind and playing catch-up., good coaches, teachers, instructors in any field who can teach that and make their students see the big picture are always the ones who have a higher success rate.
and how does one get past the freeze reaction if itís their natural reaction? Thereís really only one way, and even that isnít guaranteed.


practice, and then practice more..... spar, and then spar more..... why do you study karate? how often do you attend class? ive seen some people say "im just not good at this, yet they only go to class twice a week. 2 hours per week and then they wonder why they arent getting good or learning faster. you get what you put into anything in life. sometimes to get better or learn something you have to force yourself out of your comfort zone. blaming the instructor, (in anything) will not help if you are not trusting them or giving 100% yourself. not being able to leave that comfort zone or being afraid is on the student. im saying that in regards to students who want to learn self defense but arent willing to spar or are afraid to, ive seen that with multiple students through the years. the truth is, that if you want to learn to defend yourself you had better at some point know how it feels to get hit in the face...lol...not trying to be harsh or sound mean, but its self defense you are learning. if and when it comes down to using it you should be prepared to be hurt and know how it feels to work through it. theres a Mike tyson quote that says "everyone has a plan, until they get punched in the face". that was before his fight with Holyfield, he went on to say when people get hit they freeze. unfortunatley for Tyson, holyfield knew what it was like to get hit and didnt freeze...lol...
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LionsDen
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Joined: 06 May 2022
Posts: 177


PostPosted: Tue May 31, 2022 5:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

crash wrote:
LionsDen wrote:
crash wrote:
bushido_man96 wrote:
crash wrote:
LionsDen wrote:
crash wrote:
lets see, there are boxing coaches who have never fought, some who fought amatuer but never made it to the pro level, and a few who never fought at all, there are military instructors who never went to war, the list goes on, academia has its place, even in the combat arena
and the militaries that have people teaching with no combat experience tend to be trash at war when they finally get a taste of itÖ.thereís a pretty good example of that going on right nowÖ

Iíve never seen a boxing coach who didnít have at least a few fights/smokers on their record.
How successful are those coaches?



angelo dundee never fought, he was ali's coach
terry edwards never fought, yet was an excellent coach
cus demato, tysons coach, 0-2 record
there are many others who either never fought or werent very good, but knew the mechanics of fighting at a higher level than most actual fighters.
as far as the military is concerned, most of the leaders come from officer candidate school and other leadership courses/schools within the military. before the middle eastern conflicts the US military had reached a point where most leaders had not seen any combat, yet we were still one of the greatest militaries in the world. even now there are many, many, leaders within our own units who have not seen war. yet are fully capable of leading and teaching the units they command.


How many other great fighters did they "produce?"

When you get into the professional levels of competition, it's hard to tell which coaches are good, and which ones are made to look good by the talent of their athletes.



this is true, would Ali have been as good or better with a different coach?, would Tyson?. that is something we may never know. every coach brings something different to the table. sometimes something so simple that another may not bring that may make all the difference in the world to that one fighter as an individual. i heard someone quote a statement from an old "master" once that most never really consider fully. but have seen it come to be a gamechanger more than once through my years in this game. the quote is, "move, just move. if you stop your dead", everyone always wants to break down the movements of Kata, or what is a block and what is a punch, or how do you transition from this to this, etc.... but ive seen point fighters and sport karate fighters win real fights far more often than someone who gets caught up in all the technical stuff, why? because they knew how to move. how to keep the opponent off balance and on the defense... this isnt rocket science guys, the ones who can relax and see what is in front of them and react accordingly are the ones who will be ahead of the game, those who freeze, become stagnant or panic will always be behind and playing catch-up., good coaches, teachers, instructors in any field who can teach that and make their students see the big picture are always the ones who have a higher success rate.
and how does one get past the freeze reaction if itís their natural reaction? Thereís really only one way, and even that isnít guaranteed.


practice, and then practice more..... spar, and then spar more..... why do you study karate? how often do you attend class? ive seen some people say "im just not good at this, yet they only go to class twice a week. 2 hours per week and then they wonder why they arent getting good or learning faster. you get what you put into anything in life. sometimes to get better or learn something you have to force yourself out of your comfort zone. blaming the instructor, (in anything) will not help if you are not trusting them or giving 100% yourself. not being able to leave that comfort zone or being afraid is on the student. im saying that in regards to students who want to learn self defense but arent willing to spar or are afraid to, ive seen that with multiple students through the years. the truth is, that if you want to learn to defend yourself you had better at some point know how it feels to get hit in the face...lol...not trying to be harsh or sound mean, but its self defense you are learning. if and when it comes down to using it you should be prepared to be hurt and know how it feels to work through it. theres a Mike tyson quote that says "everyone has a plan, until they get punched in the face". that was before his fight with Holyfield, he went on to say when people get hit they freeze. unfortunatley for Tyson, holyfield knew what it was like to get hit and didnt freeze...lol...
when i was younger before my enlistment i trained/taught 3 days a week for a minimum of 7 hours a week.
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crash
Orange Belt
Orange Belt

Joined: 21 Jan 2003
Posts: 143

Styles: karate,

PostPosted: Tue May 31, 2022 6:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

LionsDen wrote:
crash wrote:
LionsDen wrote:
crash wrote:
bushido_man96 wrote:
crash wrote:
LionsDen wrote:
crash wrote:
lets see, there are boxing coaches who have never fought, some who fought amatuer but never made it to the pro level, and a few who never fought at all, there are military instructors who never went to war, the list goes on, academia has its place, even in the combat arena
and the militaries that have people teaching with no combat experience tend to be trash at war when they finally get a taste of itÖ.thereís a pretty good example of that going on right nowÖ

Iíve never seen a boxing coach who didnít have at least a few fights/smokers on their record.
How successful are those coaches?



angelo dundee never fought, he was ali's coach
terry edwards never fought, yet was an excellent coach
cus demato, tysons coach, 0-2 record
there are many others who either never fought or werent very good, but knew the mechanics of fighting at a higher level than most actual fighters.
as far as the military is concerned, most of the leaders come from officer candidate school and other leadership courses/schools within the military. before the middle eastern conflicts the US military had reached a point where most leaders had not seen any combat, yet we were still one of the greatest militaries in the world. even now there are many, many, leaders within our own units who have not seen war. yet are fully capable of leading and teaching the units they command.


How many other great fighters did they "produce?"

When you get into the professional levels of competition, it's hard to tell which coaches are good, and which ones are made to look good by the talent of their athletes.



this is true, would Ali have been as good or better with a different coach?, would Tyson?. that is something we may never know. every coach brings something different to the table. sometimes something so simple that another may not bring that may make all the difference in the world to that one fighter as an individual. i heard someone quote a statement from an old "master" once that most never really consider fully. but have seen it come to be a gamechanger more than once through my years in this game. the quote is, "move, just move. if you stop your dead", everyone always wants to break down the movements of Kata, or what is a block and what is a punch, or how do you transition from this to this, etc.... but ive seen point fighters and sport karate fighters win real fights far more often than someone who gets caught up in all the technical stuff, why? because they knew how to move. how to keep the opponent off balance and on the defense... this isnt rocket science guys, the ones who can relax and see what is in front of them and react accordingly are the ones who will be ahead of the game, those who freeze, become stagnant or panic will always be behind and playing catch-up., good coaches, teachers, instructors in any field who can teach that and make their students see the big picture are always the ones who have a higher success rate.
and how does one get past the freeze reaction if itís their natural reaction? Thereís really only one way, and even that isnít guaranteed.


practice, and then practice more..... spar, and then spar more..... why do you study karate? how often do you attend class? ive seen some people say "im just not good at this, yet they only go to class twice a week. 2 hours per week and then they wonder why they arent getting good or learning faster. you get what you put into anything in life. sometimes to get better or learn something you have to force yourself out of your comfort zone. blaming the instructor, (in anything) will not help if you are not trusting them or giving 100% yourself. not being able to leave that comfort zone or being afraid is on the student. im saying that in regards to students who want to learn self defense but arent willing to spar or are afraid to, ive seen that with multiple students through the years. the truth is, that if you want to learn to defend yourself you had better at some point know how it feels to get hit in the face...lol...not trying to be harsh or sound mean, but its self defense you are learning. if and when it comes down to using it you should be prepared to be hurt and know how it feels to work through it. theres a Mike tyson quote that says "everyone has a plan, until they get punched in the face". that was before his fight with Holyfield, he went on to say when people get hit they freeze. unfortunatley for Tyson, holyfield knew what it was like to get hit and didnt freeze...lol...
when i was younger before my enlistment i trained/taught 3 days a week for a minimum of 7 hours a week.


3 days a week should be the minimum for anyone seeking anything more than just an exercise class. i wrestled through junior high and highschool while also going to the dojo 5 days a week and fighting on the sport circuit when ever possible. the wrestling complimented the karate as far as cardio and balance while the karate complemented wrestling in getting hit and "seeing" body posture and movements. as well as other ways to helping each other.
by the way, i wasnt meaning "you" in particular in my previous posts examples, sorry if it seemed that way and i apologize if it may have offended you or made you feel I was putting you on the spot. sorry. wasnt meant that way.
my point was that anyone should ask themselves what it is they want out of whatever activity or path they are on, and then ask themselves are they really giving the activity their utmost, their full attention, 100% or are they just taking the easy route and then complaining about the results. you would be surprised at how often that is the case. no matter how good an instructor is or how good a style is, how good a student becomes will depend on how good that student wants to become and how much effort and dedication they put into it. if someone is wanting to learn real self defense they have to be all in in order to get pass that freezing up stage. someone can take all the classes and read every book out there but if they have never sparred or been hit they will still be a beginner in that first fight. and that is with anything, just using self defense cause thats where we are. but as another example, when younger and into my early twenties i was terrified of public speaking, or being "in the spotlight" if you will. performing kata in tournaments helped bring me out a little and then as an adult i went into sales after leaving the military. i had to force myself out of my comfort zone and learn to give seminars and demonstrations, as well as how to approach and carry a conversation with new clients and managers. the only way to get passed the freeze up in any situation is to practice and overcome that fear.
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LionsDen
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Orange Belt

Joined: 06 May 2022
Posts: 177


PostPosted: Tue May 31, 2022 6:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

crash wrote:
LionsDen wrote:
crash wrote:
LionsDen wrote:
crash wrote:
bushido_man96 wrote:
crash wrote:
LionsDen wrote:
crash wrote:
lets see, there are boxing coaches who have never fought, some who fought amatuer but never made it to the pro level, and a few who never fought at all, there are military instructors who never went to war, the list goes on, academia has its place, even in the combat arena
and the militaries that have people teaching with no combat experience tend to be trash at war when they finally get a taste of itÖ.thereís a pretty good example of that going on right nowÖ

Iíve never seen a boxing coach who didnít have at least a few fights/smokers on their record.
How successful are those coaches?



angelo dundee never fought, he was ali's coach
terry edwards never fought, yet was an excellent coach
cus demato, tysons coach, 0-2 record
there are many others who either never fought or werent very good, but knew the mechanics of fighting at a higher level than most actual fighters.
as far as the military is concerned, most of the leaders come from officer candidate school and other leadership courses/schools within the military. before the middle eastern conflicts the US military had reached a point where most leaders had not seen any combat, yet we were still one of the greatest militaries in the world. even now there are many, many, leaders within our own units who have not seen war. yet are fully capable of leading and teaching the units they command.


How many other great fighters did they "produce?"

When you get into the professional levels of competition, it's hard to tell which coaches are good, and which ones are made to look good by the talent of their athletes.



this is true, would Ali have been as good or better with a different coach?, would Tyson?. that is something we may never know. every coach brings something different to the table. sometimes something so simple that another may not bring that may make all the difference in the world to that one fighter as an individual. i heard someone quote a statement from an old "master" once that most never really consider fully. but have seen it come to be a gamechanger more than once through my years in this game. the quote is, "move, just move. if you stop your dead", everyone always wants to break down the movements of Kata, or what is a block and what is a punch, or how do you transition from this to this, etc.... but ive seen point fighters and sport karate fighters win real fights far more often than someone who gets caught up in all the technical stuff, why? because they knew how to move. how to keep the opponent off balance and on the defense... this isnt rocket science guys, the ones who can relax and see what is in front of them and react accordingly are the ones who will be ahead of the game, those who freeze, become stagnant or panic will always be behind and playing catch-up., good coaches, teachers, instructors in any field who can teach that and make their students see the big picture are always the ones who have a higher success rate.
and how does one get past the freeze reaction if itís their natural reaction? Thereís really only one way, and even that isnít guaranteed.


practice, and then practice more..... spar, and then spar more..... why do you study karate? how often do you attend class? ive seen some people say "im just not good at this, yet they only go to class twice a week. 2 hours per week and then they wonder why they arent getting good or learning faster. you get what you put into anything in life. sometimes to get better or learn something you have to force yourself out of your comfort zone. blaming the instructor, (in anything) will not help if you are not trusting them or giving 100% yourself. not being able to leave that comfort zone or being afraid is on the student. im saying that in regards to students who want to learn self defense but arent willing to spar or are afraid to, ive seen that with multiple students through the years. the truth is, that if you want to learn to defend yourself you had better at some point know how it feels to get hit in the face...lol...not trying to be harsh or sound mean, but its self defense you are learning. if and when it comes down to using it you should be prepared to be hurt and know how it feels to work through it. theres a Mike tyson quote that says "everyone has a plan, until they get punched in the face". that was before his fight with Holyfield, he went on to say when people get hit they freeze. unfortunatley for Tyson, holyfield knew what it was like to get hit and didnt freeze...lol...
when i was younger before my enlistment i trained/taught 3 days a week for a minimum of 7 hours a week.


3 days a week should be the minimum for anyone seeking anything more than just an exercise class. i wrestled through junior high and highschool while also going to the dojo 5 days a week and fighting on the sport circuit when ever possible. the wrestling complimented the karate as far as cardio and balance while the karate complemented wrestling in getting hit and "seeing" body posture and movements. as well as other ways to helping each other.
by the way, i wasnt meaning "you" in particular in my previous posts examples, sorry if it seemed that way and i apologize if it may have offended you or made you feel I was putting you on the spot. sorry. wasnt meant that way.
my point was that anyone should ask themselves what it is they want out of whatever activity or path they are on, and then ask themselves are they really giving the activity their utmost, their full attention, 100% or are they just taking the easy route and then complaining about the results. you would be surprised at how often that is the case. no matter how good an instructor is or how good a style is, how good a student becomes will depend on how good that student wants to become and how much effort and dedication they put into it. if someone is wanting to learn real self defense they have to be all in in order to get pass that freezing up stage. someone can take all the classes and read every book out there but if they have never sparred or been hit they will still be a beginner in that first fight. and that is with anything, just using self defense cause thats where we are. but as another example, when younger and into my early twenties i was terrified of public speaking, or being "in the spotlight" if you will. performing kata in tournaments helped bring me out a little and then as an adult i went into sales after leaving the military. i had to force myself out of my comfort zone and learn to give seminars and demonstrations, as well as how to approach and carry a conversation with new clients and managers. the only way to get passed the freeze up in any situation is to practice and overcome that fear.
no offense taken. Iím a grown man who has used his karate in a real fight multiple times by any definition of the word. Iím very comfortable in my experience, and am happy to answer any level of questions about the manner and methods I acquired said knowledge and experience.
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