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OneKickWonder
Purple Belt
Joined: 17 Feb 2018
Posts: 513
Styles: Tang soo do
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 Posted: Fri Aug 10, 2018 1:17 pm Post subject: One step sparring. What's the minimum ? |
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At TSD we have il soo sik, or one step sparring. Karate and other styles have the same notion under different names. Basically one person does a predetermined attack, the other does predetermined defence and counter. The idea is to isolate a technique to enable it to be drilled until it's reflex.
But what is the minimum amount of time that we should consider worthwhile for practice?
At wado, kung fu and aikido, we'd take maybe one or two basic technique sets, and we'd drill them over and over for at least half the class. Then we'd drill them again at the next class. To save us getting bored we'd mix it up a bit, but not much. We'd mostly practice one or two patterns until we could do it in our sleep.
Here at TSD things are very different. Here we practice lots of things, but for a much shorter time. The philosophy here is more that it's about creating options rather than drilling specifics. Here one technique will get just a few minutes per class. You might get to practice one defence and counter perhaps 3 times per class, but you'll get to do that as part of a set of at least 15 different sequences.
Last edited by OneKickWonder on Fri Aug 10, 2018 2:29 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Tempest
Green Belt
Joined: 31 Aug 2006
Posts: 424
Location: Dallas
Styles: Judo, HEMA
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| Posted: Fri Aug 10, 2018 2:17 pm Post subject: |
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Hmm, in Judo we consider about 10k reps enough to have it down for competition readiness.
But not all of those reps should be static. Once you can perform the movement consistently in a static environment, the environment should become more and more dynamic, working your way up to full resistance and the chaos of actual competition.
I don't know if that is the best way. But I do know that it is the way that Judo, BJJ, Boxing, Muay Thai, MMA, Wrestling, Etc all do it.
The number of reps you need to be comfortable doing the movement static will vary from person to person based on your athletic ability, understanding, and how picky your instructor is.
I will never NOT link these 2 articles that apply to this sort of thing:
http://mattthornton.org/why-aliveness/
http://mattthornton.org/its-aliveness-still/
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Think first, act second, and stop getting the two confused. |
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sensei8
KF Sensei
Joined: 23 Feb 2008
Posts: 16430
Location: Las Vegas, NV
Styles: Shindokan Saitou-ryu [Shuri-te/Okinawa-te based]
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| Posted: Fri Aug 10, 2018 9:07 pm Post subject: |
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| But what is the minimum amount of time that we should consider worthwhile for practice? |
Minimum?? That expression is quite alien to me!! Why??
The desired amount of time required and/or necessary in anything in the MA isn't even dependent on time, but on the individual. One Step, Ippon Kumte, is just another drill, and I've been on the floor for 53 years, and I still drill on One Steps when I'm teaching and whenever I'm training on my own or with other Senior Dan MAists.
When I finally cast off my mortal coil, I'll stop training/drilling Ippon Kumite; hopefully that time's very far away.
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**Proof is on the floor!!! |
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G95champ
Black Belt
Joined: 29 Mar 2002
Posts: 3116
Location: Gilbert WV, USA
Styles: Shotokan Karate (FSKA)
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| Posted: Sat Aug 11, 2018 9:48 pm Post subject: |
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We train one step 2-3 times per month
We do 3 or 5 step probably double that, just becomes of newer students
One step is more beneficial IMO
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(General George S. Patton Jr.) "It's the unconquerable soul of man, and not the nature of the weapon he uses, that ensures victory." |
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bushido_man96
KF Sensei
Joined: 31 Mar 2006
Posts: 30188
Location: Hays, KS
Styles: Taekwondo, Combat Hapkido, Aikido, GRACIE, Police Krav Maga, SPEAR
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| Posted: Mon Aug 13, 2018 12:24 pm Post subject: |
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One-step practice is a part of every class we do. However, one-steps vary per belt level, so as a white belt, you drill the white belt one-steps a lot. Then you move up, and tend to only drill white belt when you have a white belt in front of you during class. Its required to know all the lower rank one-steps, as well. So practice is encouraged.
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www.haysgym.com
http://www.sunyis.com/
www.aikidoofnorthwestkansas.com |
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OneKickWonder
Purple Belt
Joined: 17 Feb 2018
Posts: 513
Styles: Tang soo do
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| Posted: Mon Aug 13, 2018 2:17 pm Post subject: |
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| bushido_man96 wrote: |
| One-step practice is a part of every class we do. However, one-steps vary per belt level, so as a white belt, you drill the white belt one-steps a lot. Then you move up, and tend to only drill white belt when you have a white belt in front of you during class. Its required to know all the lower rank one-steps, as well. So practice is encouraged. |
Same with us. But specifically to the bold, yes we're encouraged to practice to. But here's the problem. Outside of class, your friends may not be fellow martial artists. Even the ones that are, may not be a comparable size and strength. For a middle aged family man, who happens to be naturally quite big, and naturally fairly strong from a lifetime of enjoying manual outdoor activities, it's nigh on impossible to find a willing training partner to train with outside of class, that can offer measurable resistance. In my case there's my wife. She is a fellow martial artist so willing to practice, but I can only go super easy, because in terms of size, strength and skill level, she is no match. But even if I was nasty enough to go at even 50% that would be no test of my skill. Some of our take downs only work against a comparable opponent if they're done right. I could pick my wife up and throw her down with one hand if I wanted to, she only ways about 50kg.
All of this is why I pay money to attend classes. There is will find a mix of people of different strength and weight and ability. If we do one step, I can find someone about my size. Or if I get a choice before everyone else partners up, I get get someone stronger and more skilled than me. That's a perfect opportunity to test against resistance and learn as I do so. Or if I and someone else want to, I could end up with someone weaker. Then I can play the thug for them to practice subduing a larger attacker. The opportunities in class are far reaching, if the required training opportunities are presented. Sadly in our case, we get a few minutes per week. Way not enough in my opinion. |
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Wastelander
KF Sensei
Joined: 18 Oct 2010
Posts: 2734
Location: Phoenix, AZ
Styles: Shorin-Ryu, Shuri-Ryu, Judo, KishimotoDi
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| Posted: Mon Aug 13, 2018 3:15 pm Post subject: |
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Static, compliant reps of a technique must be done enough to be able to perform the technique correctly on a consistent basis. At that point, resistance and unpredictability should be slowly incorporated into training so that the techniques can actually be applied under pressure. Revisiting the static, compliant drilling of the technique periodically helps ensure that the technique stays efficient, as solely working against resistance can lead a practitioner to become sloppy. It's a constant tuning process of trying to make the applied technique as effective and efficient as possible. How many reps, or how much time that takes, is going to be very dependent upon the practitioner.
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Kishimoto-Di | 2014-Present | Sensei: Ulf Karlsson
Shorin-Ryu/Shinkoten Karate | 2010-Present: Yondan, Renshi | Sensei: Richard Poage (RIP), Jeff Allred (RIP)
Shuri-Ryu | 2006-2010: Sankyu | Sensei: Joey Johnston, Joe Walker (RIP)
Judo | 2007-2010: Gokyu | Sensei: Joe Walker (RIP), Ramon Rivera (RIP), Adrian Rivera
Illinois Practical Karate | International Neoclassical Karate Kobudo Society |
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Kusotare
Purple Belt
Joined: 02 Feb 2013
Posts: 574
Styles: Traditional Japanese Karate, Koryu Bujutsu (Jujutsu, Iaido and Kenjutsu)
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| Posted: Tue Aug 14, 2018 10:33 am Post subject: Re: One step sparring. What's the minimum ? |
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| OneKickWonder wrote: |
At wado, kung fu and aikido, we'd take maybe one or two basic technique sets, and we'd drill them over and over for at least half the class. Then we'd drill them again at the next class. To save us getting bored we'd mix it up a bit, but not much. We'd mostly practice one or two patterns until we could do it in our sleep. |
Speaking from a Wado perspective (and because you mention it above) - partner work is drilled continuously however, like many traditional Jujutsu based systems - there are many layers.
The same partner drill has one way for beginners, another way for intermediate and yet more for advanced.
In this respect there is no minimum - as you progress the technique changes.
Kusotare
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Usque ad mortem bibendum! |
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bushido_man96
KF Sensei
Joined: 31 Mar 2006
Posts: 30188
Location: Hays, KS
Styles: Taekwondo, Combat Hapkido, Aikido, GRACIE, Police Krav Maga, SPEAR
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| Posted: Wed Aug 22, 2018 12:23 pm Post subject: |
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| OneKickWonder wrote: |
| bushido_man96 wrote: |
| One-step practice is a part of every class we do. However, one-steps vary per belt level, so as a white belt, you drill the white belt one-steps a lot. Then you move up, and tend to only drill white belt when you have a white belt in front of you during class. Its required to know all the lower rank one-steps, as well. So practice is encouraged. |
Same with us. But specifically to the bold, yes we're encouraged to practice to. But here's the problem. Outside of class, your friends may not be fellow martial artists. Even the ones that are, may not be a comparable size and strength. For a middle aged family man, who happens to be naturally quite big, and naturally fairly strong from a lifetime of enjoying manual outdoor activities, it's nigh on impossible to find a willing training partner to train with outside of class, that can offer measurable resistance. In my case there's my wife. She is a fellow martial artist so willing to practice, but I can only go super easy, because in terms of size, strength and skill level, she is no match. But even if I was nasty enough to go at even 50% that would be no test of my skill. Some of our take downs only work against a comparable opponent if they're done right. I could pick my wife up and throw her down with one hand if I wanted to, she only ways about 50kg.
All of this is why I pay money to attend classes. There is will find a mix of people of different strength and weight and ability. If we do one step, I can find someone about my size. Or if I get a choice before everyone else partners up, I get get someone stronger and more skilled than me. That's a perfect opportunity to test against resistance and learn as I do so. Or if I and someone else want to, I could end up with someone weaker. Then I can play the thug for them to practice subduing a larger attacker. The opportunities in class are far reaching, if the required training opportunities are presented. Sadly in our case, we get a few minutes per week. Way not enough in my opinion. |
I agree that finding a suitable training partner outside of the training hall is difficult. You really got to find the people that are wired for that. Before my work schedule changed, I was making it a point to get to class about a half hour early so me and another black belt could work on our three-step sparring. But right now, we're just in the "get the reps in" phase to get it all down. We're not branching out and expanding on them yet, which is where I want to be.
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http://www.sunyis.com/
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on the post.
