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straightblast
Orange Belt
Joined: 05 Aug 2006
Posts: 136
Styles: close quarter combat
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Posted: Mon Aug 13, 2012 11:36 am Post subject: |
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If your interested in a JKD approach to trapping and clinch work, look up Paul Vunak on youtube.
Regards _________________ Enter-pressure-terminate |
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SifuGazz
White Belt
Joined: 19 Feb 2013
Posts: 24
Location: Idaho
Styles: Taijiquan, Baguazhang, Xingyichuan
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Posted: Sun Mar 10, 2013 10:31 pm Post subject: |
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I think one should always be trapping. For me trapping range begins when I can touch their hand as extended in fighting position, but they cannot land a punch without stepping in. Tactically this is the best ranges to engage, it allows you to control the situation, move in, trap, and take them out.
Do yourself a favor and learn some tai chi push hands or bagua rou-shou, WC / JKD trapping is good, but has some mechanical failings and other gaps to be filled.
G _________________ Train like you fight, and fight like you train.
www.FlowingCombat.net
25% off DVD for forum members |
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sensei8
KF Sensei
Joined: 23 Feb 2008
Posts: 16430
Location: Las Vegas, NV
Styles: Shindokan Saitou-ryu [Shuri-te/Okinawa-te based]
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Posted: Tue Mar 12, 2013 6:31 pm Post subject: |
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SifuGazz wrote: |
I think one should always be trapping. For me trapping range begins when I can touch their hand as extended in fighting position, but they cannot land a punch without stepping in. Tactically this is the best ranges to engage, it allows you to control the situation, move in, trap, and take them out.
Do yourself a favor and learn some tai chi push hands or bagua rou-shou, WC / JKD trapping is good, but has some mechanical failings and other gaps to be filled.
G |
Solid post!!
Wooden dummy training...can't live without it, imho.
_________________ **Proof is on the floor!!! |
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barrypardue
Orange Belt
Joined: 25 Mar 2013
Posts: 102
Location: Mississippi
Styles: Shotokan Karate, Judo
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Posted: Mon Mar 25, 2013 4:06 pm Post subject: |
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practice makes perfect _________________ Martial Arts is not just a hobby, Its a way of life!!! |
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guird
Orange Belt
Joined: 21 Jun 2013
Posts: 198
Styles: BJJ, MMA, Gongkwon Yusul
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Posted: Tue Dec 10, 2013 1:47 am Post subject: |
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trapping seems to be the jkd and wing chun way of dealing with clinching range, judging from what you discuss here. It makes sense considering the emphasis on defeating larger attackers in these arts. clinching with someone much larger and stronger than you can end badly. |
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sensei8
KF Sensei
Joined: 23 Feb 2008
Posts: 16430
Location: Las Vegas, NV
Styles: Shindokan Saitou-ryu [Shuri-te/Okinawa-te based]
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Posted: Thu Dec 12, 2013 3:07 pm Post subject: |
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guird wrote: |
trapping seems to be the jkd and wing chun way of dealing with clinching range, judging from what you discuss here. It makes sense considering the emphasis on defeating larger attackers in these arts. clinching with someone much larger and stronger than you can end badly. |
Solid post!!
_________________ **Proof is on the floor!!! |
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tallgeese
Black Belt
Joined: 04 May 2008
Posts: 6879
Location: McHenry County, IL
Styles: Brazilian Jiu Jitsu, Bujin Bugei Jutsu, Gokei Ryu Kempo Jutsu, MMA, Shootfighting, boxing, kickboxing, JKD, Pekiti Tersia Kali
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Posted: Fri Dec 13, 2013 9:06 pm Post subject: |
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Trapping is a fun, and useful tool. However, there is a tendency to "over-trap". In other words, if trained improperly, people can start to trap for trapping sake rather than elicit it's primary purpose:
to open a path to a soft target.
That's the core of what has become an over mystified element. It's simply a way to get an attack to it's intended target. Now what you really have to look at is how are you utilizing trapping training against certain types of attacks. Trapping fluid strikes that give minimal reference points (ie. boxing instead of karate) is really different than trapping someone who rigidly presents a blocking appendage or coverage.
This does not mean it does not work, but work must be done functionally to adapt it. And this work must be pressure tested.
Please note, this is not my original thoughts, but the work of people much better than myself that I've had the opportunity to spend JKD time with. I'm just not that smart.
Lastly, remember that even in classical JKD (and certainly in the concept/ training methods circles to an even greater degree) that the trapping element is a single tool in the arsenal for attacking. In fact, it's often regarded as the most difficult and highest technical aspect of attacking an opponent. Considered an "Attack by Hand/ Foot Immobilization (HIA or FIA)" it's at the highest spot on the hierarchy of such things on a lot of teaching models.
It's not the primary way of creating such things, but an option for the student who has the advanced level of reading body posture and movement AND developed the physical attributes for working them.
So, while a good tool and one I wholeheartedly agree needs to be addressed. It's not the only or even primary mode of presenting attack. The key is in building the proper foundation and then properly addressing the training methods for the tool to use it across a wide range of styles. _________________ http://alphajiujitsu.com/
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCJhRVuwbm__LwXPvFMReMww |
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sensei8
KF Sensei
Joined: 23 Feb 2008
Posts: 16430
Location: Las Vegas, NV
Styles: Shindokan Saitou-ryu [Shuri-te/Okinawa-te based]
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Posted: Sat Dec 14, 2013 1:00 pm Post subject: |
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tallgeese wrote: |
Trapping is a fun, and useful tool. However, there is a tendency to "over-trap". In other words, if trained improperly, people can start to trap for trapping sake rather than elicit it's primary purpose:
to open a path to a soft target.
That's the core of what has become an over mystified element. It's simply a way to get an attack to it's intended target. Now what you really have to look at is how are you utilizing trapping training against certain types of attacks. Trapping fluid strikes that give minimal reference points (ie. boxing instead of karate) is really different than trapping someone who rigidly presents a blocking appendage or coverage.
This does not mean it does not work, but work must be done functionally to adapt it. And this work must be pressure tested.
Please note, this is not my original thoughts, but the work of people much better than myself that I've had the opportunity to spend JKD time with. I'm just not that smart.
Lastly, remember that even in classical JKD (and certainly in the concept/ training methods circles to an even greater degree) that the trapping element is a single tool in the arsenal for attacking. In fact, it's often regarded as the most difficult and highest technical aspect of attacking an opponent. Considered an "Attack by Hand/ Foot Immobilization (HIA or FIA)" it's at the highest spot on the hierarchy of such things on a lot of teaching models.
It's not the primary way of creating such things, but an option for the student who has the advanced level of reading body posture and movement AND developed the physical attributes for working them.
So, while a good tool and one I wholeheartedly agree needs to be addressed. It's not the only or even primary mode of presenting attack. The key is in building the proper foundation and then properly addressing the training methods for the tool to use it across a wide range of styles. |
Solid post!!
To trap just to trap is unnecessary across the board. Knowing how to is tantamount. Our brand of Tuite utilizes an enormous amount of trapping, and I do it without thought, but only when it's necessary, not before.
It's all about, imho, effective applied knowledge!!
_________________ **Proof is on the floor!!! |
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bushido_man96
KF Sensei
Joined: 31 Mar 2006
Posts: 30188
Location: Hays, KS
Styles: Taekwondo, Combat Hapkido, Aikido, GRACIE, Police Krav Maga, SPEAR
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Posted: Sat Dec 14, 2013 6:39 pm Post subject: |
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Yes, very good points. Combat Hapkido has some trapping methods that are applied, but the head of the organization, GM Pelligrini, makes it clear that we inlcude just enough to use as a useful tool, and not "overtrapping," like Alex mentions. _________________ www.haysgym.com
http://www.sunyis.com/
www.aikidoofnorthwestkansas.com |
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