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scohen.mma
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Joined: 18 Mar 2012
Posts: 142
Location: Long Island, New York
Styles: Matsubayashi-Ryu, Kaze No Ryu Bugei Ogawa Ha

PostPosted: Tue Aug 26, 2014 10:48 pm    Post subject: Warriors spirit? Reply with quote

As martial artists, how would you describe the "warriors spirit?" Just a random question! Thanks
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Harkon72
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Joined: 27 Aug 2012
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Location: Wales
Styles: Okinawan Karate, Aikido, Ninpo.

PostPosted: Wed Aug 27, 2014 11:09 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

A Soldier does as he's told, a Warrior stands between danger and those he loves and holds dear. If there is a threat to my Wife or family, it'll have to get through me to harm them. Such is Bushido, such is the Warrior Spirit of my Celtic people. Are you willing to die for those you love?
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Karate4Life
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Joined: 16 Aug 2014
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Location: Germany
Styles: Hands and Feet

PostPosted: Wed Aug 27, 2014 11:29 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

OSU!

I don't understand why people tend to be so fascinated by things that are related to war. A warrior kills, survives and dies in the field and gets paid for it. Nothing glorious about this. Now, for how many of us who are doing a MA as a hobby or maybe even on a professional basis can say so? As long as there are rules it's not real fighting, and for sure it's got nothing to do with war.

OSU!
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Harkon72
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Joined: 27 Aug 2012
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Location: Wales
Styles: Okinawan Karate, Aikido, Ninpo.

PostPosted: Wed Aug 27, 2014 4:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

If this is the case then by definition it is not a martial art. Soldiers get paid, warriors fight for their survival and that of their loved ones. Many professional armies have suffered defeat at the hands of common warriors defending their homeland; from the Crusades to Vietnam. I don't know about others, but my budo is not a pass time or a hobby and defiantly not a sport. It is part of who I am; It's physical, mental and spiritual; that's why it's a martial art.
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Spartacus Maximus
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Joined: 01 Jun 2014
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 27, 2014 6:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I do not care much for the term 'warrior' and I am nearly certain that the use of this word in the context of martial arts arose from the difficulty of translating and interpreting cultural concepts in them.

Warriors are not the same as soldiers. The soldier is a professional who fight for an established power and it's ideals. A warrior is an ordinary man who takes up arms to face a direct threat to his social group. Only the most basic human social organizations still have warriors nowadays.

Anyways, I think that what is meant by 'warrior spirit' is a strong sense of mental toughness and moral justice combined with strict self-discipline and determination. Martial arts training encourages and develops these qualities through concentrated efforts over time. These qualities are more applicable to everyday life than any type of physical conflict context.
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Harkon72
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Joined: 27 Aug 2012
Posts: 1875
Location: Wales
Styles: Okinawan Karate, Aikido, Ninpo.

PostPosted: Wed Aug 27, 2014 7:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Maybe it is to do with my Pagan background, it could be that the term "Warrior" has different meaning for different people. For me it is not a trivial label or a title given to myself as I look at myself in the mirror while wearing my karate gi. It is a vital archetype in my fabric. In our culture and Welsh Celtic tradition it is an important role in the way we look at our spiritual selves. Maybe it is a factor that our land has been invaded and defended almost perpetually in the past and we still feel the threat as a colonial nation even today. Maybe this threat is not a physical reality, but it exists psychologically in our culture. I know there is no battles in open fields with chariots at the vanguard any more, Wales is a relatively peaceful place to live. But still the value of warriorship is strong with our people, be it in the Dojo or on the Rugby field.
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Archimoto
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Joined: 12 Apr 2014
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Styles: JKD / Muay Thai / TKD

PostPosted: Wed Aug 27, 2014 8:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Spartacus Maximus wrote:
I think that what is meant by 'warrior spirit' is a strong sense of mental toughness and moral justice combined with strict self-discipline and determination. Martial arts training encourages and develops these qualities through concentrated efforts over time. These qualities are more applicable to everyday life than any type of physical conflict context.


Solid !!!
I completely, entirely, and wholeheartedly agree!!!
I think our biggest challenge today - in developed countries anyway - is overcoming complacency personally and professionally. Martial arts training develops skills and qualities that help us fight-on in a variety of ways. Great post Spartacus Maximus!!!
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guird
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Joined: 21 Jun 2013
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Styles: BJJ, MMA, Gongkwon Yusul

PostPosted: Thu Aug 28, 2014 2:06 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

A warrior is simply someone who specializes in warfare. They fight and kill on the battlefield. According to wikipedia, it normally refers specifically to members of a social class designated to fight in war (e.g. samurai). Being a warrior means killing, generally because someone in charge started a war and wants you to end it.

When people talk about the warrior spirit however, that isn't really what they mean. It seems to refer more to a number of qualities that are useful on the battlefield, and off it. Perseverence and courage being central it seems. the other useful battlefield qualities such as heartlessness and aggression aren't really emphasized.
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Archimoto
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Joined: 12 Apr 2014
Posts: 548

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PostPosted: Thu Aug 28, 2014 6:11 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

@guird: absolutely. There's an enormous difference between a WARRIOR's SPIRIT as opposed to a WARRIOR's MENTALITY imho. That's why I think Spartacus Maximus (see post above) hit the nail on the head.
Great thread - this is a delineation that is all too often taken for granted.
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CredoTe
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Joined: 26 Jul 2013
Posts: 776
Location: Ohio, USA
Styles: Matsubayashi-Ryu (Shorin-Ryu), Hung Gar (Hung Siu Lum)

PostPosted: Thu Aug 28, 2014 8:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Harkon72 wrote:
If this is the case then by definition it is not a martial art. Soldiers get paid, warriors fight for their survival and that of their loved ones. Many professional armies have suffered defeat at the hands of common warriors defending their homeland; from the Crusades to Vietnam. I don't know about others, but my budo is not a pass time or a hobby and defiantly not a sport. It is part of who I am; It's physical, mental and spiritual; that's why it's a martial art.


While you are correct about commoners defending their homelands against much larger professional armies, a huge factor in many of these instances, and in particular the Crusades and Vietnam, have to do with logistics. In both cases, each successive invading army continued to fail to properly plan and prepare and formulate a strategy of logistics for their own army as well as the indigenous armies. The generals, priests, and monarchs calling the shots for the Crusaders just couldn't come together to agree on anything, and hence, they started to lose money and supplies, which left the Crusaders stranded and starving. The Crusaders that realized this are the ones that said "this is stupid, this is folly", and secretly diverted monies and treasures used to pay and supply them into hidden caches and vaults, or to outright sack one of their own strongholds (all before they were formally disbanded and all burned at the stake).

Vietnam was almost the same thing, just replace secret gold and treasure with drugs, add in modern politics, and TA-DA, failure (or victory from the viewpoint of the Viet Cong)...

If the Crusaders had had unified political, theocratic, and plebeian support, I wonder what the Middle East would look like today?

If the US and France had had unified political support and the support of the people, I wonder what East Asia, in particular Southeast Asia, would look like today?

Your last statement is highly commendable and respectable. Taking in the MA and internalizing both its martial and spiritual aspects is a great thing.

guird wrote:
A warrior is simply someone who specializes in warfare. They fight and kill on the battlefield. According to wikipedia, it normally refers specifically to members of a social class designated to fight in war (e.g. samurai). Being a warrior means killing, generally because someone in charge started a war and wants you to end it.

When people talk about the warrior spirit however, that isn't really what they mean. It seems to refer more to a number of qualities that are useful on the battlefield, and off it. Perseverence and courage being central it seems. the other useful battlefield qualities such as heartlessness and aggression aren't really emphasized.


Absolutely... The only thing I would add is from Harkon's last statement... Internalizing one's budo for self-improvement and enlightenment is a viable endeavor of the MA.


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