What to do with the kids' class Smart A*se?

DLopez · Purple Belt

I just remembered one more thing to consider...

When we teach kids our techniques, we typically start them off with a 'simpler' version of it than we would with more advanced students. We simply leave out some of the fine details of the techniques to make it easier for the novice student to grasp the basics first. It's just to ease the student into the complex techniques, the same way kids don't learn to write essays in elementary school, they start off by writing short, simple sentences.

Sometimes when I'm supervising the kids going through their techniques, I might think a particular kid is doing a technique incorrectly when actually, that is how he was shown how to do it by our instructor. I will usually ask our instructor if they should be doing the technique the advanced way if I have doubts.

Likewise, to another more advanced student, it might look like what I am teaching a novice student is incorrect, when it is actually my intention to teach it that way. That's when I have to tell the other student to "please perform the technique like you have been shown, and let me worry about teaching this student."
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Dean
Dahn Boh Nim - Black-Brown Belt
Kuk Sool Won
"Dream as if you'll live forever. Live as if you'll die tomorrow." - James Dean

angelica d · Orange Belt

Cheers Shorinryu Sensei and DLopez, some really good points to consider there. I'll probably be teaching them again tomorow so if he starts acting up I'll make it clear that I'm the one teaching, and that I don't always appreciate his 'contributions'.

I'm not dreading it that much now, actually. The rest of the kids, even if not as bright, are really eager to learn, and its fun to teach them. I'll let you know how I get on guys!

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"Weaseling out of things is what separates us from the animals . . . except the weasel."
- Homer J Simpson

aefibird · Black Belt

Good luck with the teaching!

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"Was it really worth it? Only time and death may ever tell..." The Beautiful South - The Rose of My Cologne

Sheffield Steelers!

Bart the Lover · Yellow Belt

May I ask why your instructor chose you? Does teaching interest you?
Please don't take this the wrong way, but it seems slightly odd to ask
a low ranked person to teach. I wouldn't like to demonstrate a technique,
never mind take a class. I realise that there was a shortage of high ranks,
but either someone has the skills to teach or they don't--being asked to
fill in because you're available seems very unfair.

The reason I'm asking this is because I'm wondering whether you're
confident with the material (confident enough to be teaching it). In the
unlikely event that my instructor asked me to take a class of kids, I
would say no--because I'm simply not qualified for it. I was wondering if
maybe this thought was behind your hesitency in putting the child in his
place (gently). Did you want to do the class?

Anyway, to answer your question: I would give one or two warnings to be
quiet, then I would put him out of the class if he persisted. Even if you
have reservations about teaching, they are between you and your
instructor. It shouldn't affect class discipline. I agree with White Warlock;
you are there to teach, he is there to learn.
I wouldn't punish with press-ups, as seems to be common practice. My
club does this and I don't approve. I don't think any exercise should be
used as a punishment for children. I don't agree with humiliating him
either (by getting him to take the class/ridiculing him). I had school
teachers who used this to control classes and it's horrible. You don't want
to put him off going--you just want him to pipe down.

How old is the child? You need to be a bit firmer with a twelve or thirteen-
year-old than an eight year old. If he's closer to eight, he's probably a
bit over-excited and is enjoying the opportunity to show off his extra
knowledge (even when it's wrong!). But if he's an adolescent, his
behaviour smacks of trying to undermine you, and you should be stricter
with him.

Best of luck with the teaching.

Regards,

Bart the Lover

DLopez · Purple Belt

Bart, I realize you intended your question for angelica d, but I don't think anyone is qualified at first to decide if they have what it takes to teach, especially if they've never done it before. My instructor asked me to assist, not because I thought was capable, but because he thought I was. I honestly didn't know if I could do it.

Now, I recognize areas where I need to become better at, but my instructor realizes that it simply takes time and practice.

You make a good point though. I wouldn't want to be taught by someone that really didn't want to be teaching, however, I get the impression that angelica d wants to teach and is just looking for guidance on how to handle this type situation. But, I think angelica d can answer that way better than me.

_________________
Dean
Dahn Boh Nim - Black-Brown Belt
Kuk Sool Won
"Dream as if you'll live forever. Live as if you'll die tomorrow." - James Dean

Luckykboxer · Brown Belt

Hehe dont you just love these type of kids?

Here is my suggestion..

First off ridiculing anyone in a karate studio is a horrible thing to do.
you have no idea why they are there, they could be challenged with some learning disorder(it seems every doctor on the planet is recommending karate classes to kids with ADDS or similar ailments, possibly have abusive parents who are pushing them, they are bullied in school, etc.etc.
especially if its kids.

I think that most kids will challenge someone if they are given the chance, now for a smaller school i can understand having adults and kids train together, but in my experience this is not a good thing.
kids and adults and even teens all learn and behave differently.
to mix them in the same class is almost asking for trouble, either the kids or the adults will be frustrated by the other, its bound to happen.

Now as far as the kid pressing or challenging you, as soon as you establish you are in an authoritative position, you become much better at dealing with this.
the senior instructor should have made it clear that the kids were to do whatever it was you were doing, and that you would be leading that group.
If this was done, and the kid still spouts off, then tell him clearly and to the point, that we are not taking any questions until we are done with this set/form/exercise/ etc. and to hold his questions until we are done, or until you ask if ther are any questions.
If the kid still presists to cause problems, then i would just have the rest of the group do their drill and bring the kid to the senior instructor, unless that instructor has given you permission to discipline the kid.... i.e. pushups, chinese chairs, etc.
never discipline a child in class unless the senior instructor has given you that authority,a nd even then id be very careful about it.

I dont know the status of your school, but It puts everyoen in a difficult position when adults and kids train in the same class, and then also when beginning students, even intermediate ranked students are asked to teach.
It also seems to cause issues when kids are asked to teach adults.
just my 2 cents.

angelica d · Orange Belt

Wow, lots of contributions, i don't really know where to begin!

First of all, Bart, thanks for your concern but I do actually enjoy teaching. At the smaller dojo where I train twice a week, I often teach the beginners the basics (usually no more than three at a time). I admit it was a bit daunting when I was asked to teach a whole group, and yeah it isn't a regular scenario when a low rank takes on the role as assistant instructor, so maybe it was unfair. But I agreed to do it, firstly because they obviously thought I was capable, and secondly because it seemed like a good opportunity for me. So when I get to brown belt and have to take a teaching qualification, I'll have a bit of experience. Thirdly, I quite like being thrown in at the deep end, so to speak - I tend to work much better when nervous or under pressure.

Luckykboxer, just to clarify, my dojo does have separate kids and adult classes - I just happened to be hanging around at the beginning of the kids class because I get a lift to the dojo with some of the black belts. You made a good point about getting the senior instructor to tell the kids that I would be leading the group, I'll have a word about this in the future.

I think that the main issue for me is not the fact that I'm teaching at a low rank. I train way more than most people at the dojo and several blackbelts have commented that my techniques and knowledge are at brown belt standard already. I know the material and have watched enough kids classes to have picked up different methods of explaining the techniques. What I haven't had any experience in is disciplining the kids. At the smaller dojo I only teach a couple of kids at a time so there's no real discipline problem.

But I've now got a few ideas in mind if this situation arises again (which it probably will). Thanks all!

Angelica

_________________
"Weaseling out of things is what separates us from the animals . . . except the weasel."
- Homer J Simpson

markusan · Orange Belt

I've been teaching quite a few years now and often ask promising students to help take a class if their technique is good .
I have never come across anyone, including myself, who doesn't have trouble with some students. I try to never humiliate a student but I do raise my voice deliberately and forcefully to make a point. And if I have a student who is contributing more than their fair share I reiterate my rule that when I talk they listen. I don't think you should be too hard on kids but set them boundaries, and maybe get them to agree to your conditions.
Teaching is not easy but is very rewarding and you'll develop strategies to fit your own temperament.
And be thankful for this little so-and-so because he's making you look at yourself in a new way, and you're obviously thinking about it and searching for answers.
Sounds to me like you have what it takes. Good luck.

angelica d · Orange Belt

[quote]be thankful for this little so-and-so because he's making you look at yourself in a new way, and you're obviously thinking about it and searching for answers. [/quote]

Wow, thats a really good way of looking at things markusan, I'd never thought about it like that. But yeah, he's not the first kid like that and certainly won't be the last I come across in the future, so at least I'm prepared!

_________________
"Weaseling out of things is what separates us from the animals . . . except the weasel."
- Homer J Simpson

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