|
|
| Author |
Message |
OneKickWonder
Purple Belt
Joined: 17 Feb 2018
Posts: 513
Styles: Tang soo do
|
 Posted: Mon Feb 26, 2018 3:14 pm Post subject: Re: Acceptable training in Karate or TKD with 1% kicking? |
 |
|
| Prototype wrote: |
This is what we did yesterday: knife hand block (moving forward). Wedging block (moving forward). Twin forearm block (moving forward). Side punch. High block (moving forward). Low block (moving forward). The only kick was a warm-up (rising kick).
Blocks, blocks, blocks, and more blocks. And punches. And this is a constant pattern in our training.
Would you ask for a refund if this was your TKD or Karate place?
The fact that it's Taekwondo makes it even worse to me. |
Hand techniques are often neglected in Korean arts. I have the opposite complaint that we focus too much on kicking.
I can understand your frustration.
But, what if your instructor is the real deal? What if he or she is not interested in the impractical show moves and wants you to learn a combat art?
In a real scrap, kicks should be kept fairly low to avoid loss of balance and to reduce the risk of the leg being caught. And they should be simple. The tornado kick for example, perfect it is your youth. Try doing it effectively when you're 40plus and carrying your fair share of old injuries.
That's not to say kicks are bad. They are a great training tool and I guess they have real uses.
But your hand techniques. Think about your blocks that you're getting bored with. How practical are they as blocks. Imagine a punch or kick is coming in at full speed. Do you have time to do a perfect block? Think about that for a moment. Then think about the movement of the block. What else could they be? While your hand is going up to your opposite shoulder for example, what is your elbow doing? What could it be doing if modified very slightly? Think about where the hand goes when blocking. Is it knocking a punch or kick off course or is it doing something else? Think about what the other arm is doing when blocking. Think about the motion in preparing to block. In a knife hand centre for example, hands come to the hip first. Is that just setting up for the block or is that an action in itself?
We're often taught that a block is a block, but as you move up through the grades, if you haven't started to realise it for yourself yet, the instructor should start to reveal, that blocks are anything but blocks.in fact they are useless as blocks. Far too slow. But they are quite forceful actions. Think about how a high/rising block might work if your opponent has hold of you and us too close to punch or kick. Think about what your knife hand block might do to an elbow of somebody that has got hold of you.
There's a lot going on in hand techniques. Your instructor no doubt wants you to develop the techniques and the muscles that support them, so that by the time you figure out what they really are, they will be formidable techniques. Not show techniques. Not for competition. But maybe to keep you in one piece in a real scrap.
That said, he should be teaching kicks too though. |
|
| Back to top |
|
 |
Prototype
Green Belt
Joined: 15 Dec 2016
Posts: 367
|
| Posted: Tue Apr 10, 2018 9:10 am Post subject: |
|
|
| I just visited a Shotokan school. I understand that schools differ but TKD is supposed to have somewhat of an emphasis on kicking, even "traditional" TKD. Yet the Shotokan school does far more of kicking drills than we do. A Shotokan school!! |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Prototype
Green Belt
Joined: 15 Dec 2016
Posts: 367
|
| Posted: Tue Apr 10, 2018 9:13 am Post subject: Re: Acceptable training in Karate or TKD with 1% kicking? |
|
|
| OneKickWonder wrote: |
| Prototype wrote: |
This is what we did yesterday: knife hand block (moving forward). Wedging block (moving forward). Twin forearm block (moving forward). Side punch. High block (moving forward). Low block (moving forward). The only kick was a warm-up (rising kick).
Blocks, blocks, blocks, and more blocks. And punches. And this is a constant pattern in our training.
Would you ask for a refund if this was your TKD or Karate place?
The fact that it's Taekwondo makes it even worse to me. |
Hand techniques are often neglected in Korean arts. I have the opposite complaint that we focus too much on kicking.
I can understand your frustration.
But, what if your instructor is the real deal? What if he or she is not interested in the impractical show moves and wants you to learn a combat art?
In a real scrap, kicks should be kept fairly low to avoid loss of balance and to reduce the risk of the leg being caught. And they should be simple. The tornado kick for example, perfect it is your youth. Try doing it effectively when you're 40plus and carrying your fair share of old injuries.
That's not to say kicks are bad. They are a great training tool and I guess they have real uses.
But your hand techniques. Think about your blocks that you're getting bored with. How practical are they as blocks. Imagine a punch or kick is coming in at full speed. Do you have time to do a perfect block? Think about that for a moment. Then think about the movement of the block. What else could they be? While your hand is going up to your opposite shoulder for example, what is your elbow doing? What could it be doing if modified very slightly? Think about where the hand goes when blocking. Is it knocking a punch or kick off course or is it doing something else? Think about what the other arm is doing when blocking. Think about the motion in preparing to block. In a knife hand centre for example, hands come to the hip first. Is that just setting up for the block or is that an action in itself?
We're often taught that a block is a block, but as you move up through the grades, if you haven't started to realise it for yourself yet, the instructor should start to reveal, that blocks are anything but blocks.in fact they are useless as blocks. Far too slow. But they are quite forceful actions. Think about how a high/rising block might work if your opponent has hold of you and us too close to punch or kick. Think about what your knife hand block might do to an elbow of somebody that has got hold of you.
There's a lot going on in hand techniques. Your instructor no doubt wants you to develop the techniques and the muscles that support them, so that by the time you figure out what they really are, they will be formidable techniques. Not show techniques. Not for competition. But maybe to keep you in one piece in a real scrap.
That said, he should be teaching kicks too though. |
If my instructor feels that way he picked the wrong art. Taekwondo is supposed to have a 60/40 kick/punch distribution, bare minimum. This is more like 10-20% kicking. Kicks are not taught as rigidly either. He might demonstrate a roundhouse kick half heartedly at low heights. No lectures on the proper body mechanics involved in roundhouse kicks. No lectures on how to apply kicks in sparring, that is no tactics lectures. No lectures in sparring tactics at all. Etc |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
OneKickWonder
Purple Belt
Joined: 17 Feb 2018
Posts: 513
Styles: Tang soo do
|
| Posted: Tue Apr 10, 2018 10:55 am Post subject: Re: Acceptable training in Karate or TKD with 1% kicking? |
|
|
| Prototype wrote: |
| OneKickWonder wrote: |
| Prototype wrote: |
This is what we did yesterday: knife hand block (moving forward). Wedging block (moving forward). Twin forearm block (moving forward). Side punch. High block (moving forward). Low block (moving forward). The only kick was a warm-up (rising kick).
Blocks, blocks, blocks, and more blocks. And punches. And this is a constant pattern in our training.
Would you ask for a refund if this was your TKD or Karate place?
The fact that it's Taekwondo makes it even worse to me. |
Hand techniques are often neglected in Korean arts. I have the opposite complaint that we focus too much on kicking.
I can understand your frustration.
But, what if your instructor is the real deal? What if he or she is not interested in the impractical show moves and wants you to learn a combat art?
In a real scrap, kicks should be kept fairly low to avoid loss of balance and to reduce the risk of the leg being caught. And they should be simple. The tornado kick for example, perfect it is your youth. Try doing it effectively when you're 40plus and carrying your fair share of old injuries.
That's not to say kicks are bad. They are a great training tool and I guess they have real uses.
But your hand techniques. Think about your blocks that you're getting bored with. How practical are they as blocks. Imagine a punch or kick is coming in at full speed. Do you have time to do a perfect block? Think about that for a moment. Then think about the movement of the block. What else could they be? While your hand is going up to your opposite shoulder for example, what is your elbow doing? What could it be doing if modified very slightly? Think about where the hand goes when blocking. Is it knocking a punch or kick off course or is it doing something else? Think about what the other arm is doing when blocking. Think about the motion in preparing to block. In a knife hand centre for example, hands come to the hip first. Is that just setting up for the block or is that an action in itself?
We're often taught that a block is a block, but as you move up through the grades, if you haven't started to realise it for yourself yet, the instructor should start to reveal, that blocks are anything but blocks.in fact they are useless as blocks. Far too slow. But they are quite forceful actions. Think about how a high/rising block might work if your opponent has hold of you and us too close to punch or kick. Think about what your knife hand block might do to an elbow of somebody that has got hold of you.
There's a lot going on in hand techniques. Your instructor no doubt wants you to develop the techniques and the muscles that support them, so that by the time you figure out what they really are, they will be formidable techniques. Not show techniques. Not for competition. But maybe to keep you in one piece in a real scrap.
That said, he should be teaching kicks too though. |
If my instructor feels that way he picked the wrong art. Taekwondo is supposed to have a 60/40 kick/punch distribution, bare minimum. This is more like 10-20% kicking. Kicks are not taught as rigidly either. He might demonstrate a roundhouse kick half heartedly at low heights. No lectures on the proper body mechanics involved in roundhouse kicks. No lectures on how to apply kicks in sparring, that is no tactics lectures. No lectures in sparring tactics at all. Etc |
Who said taekwondo is supposed to be 60/40 kicking?
And what are 'sparring tactics'? There are no tactics in real violence. Just action. Tactics are for sport.
Taekwondo is often interpreted and presented as a sport. And that's fine. But at its roots it is very much a martial art. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Prototype
Green Belt
Joined: 15 Dec 2016
Posts: 367
|
| Posted: Wed Apr 11, 2018 5:54 pm Post subject: Re: Acceptable training in Karate or TKD with 1% kicking? |
|
|
| OneKickWonder wrote: |
| Prototype wrote: |
| OneKickWonder wrote: |
| Prototype wrote: |
This is what we did yesterday: knife hand block (moving forward). Wedging block (moving forward). Twin forearm block (moving forward). Side punch. High block (moving forward). Low block (moving forward). The only kick was a warm-up (rising kick).
Blocks, blocks, blocks, and more blocks. And punches. And this is a constant pattern in our training.
Would you ask for a refund if this was your TKD or Karate place?
The fact that it's Taekwondo makes it even worse to me. |
Hand techniques are often neglected in Korean arts. I have the opposite complaint that we focus too much on kicking.
I can understand your frustration.
But, what if your instructor is the real deal? What if he or she is not interested in the impractical show moves and wants you to learn a combat art?
In a real scrap, kicks should be kept fairly low to avoid loss of balance and to reduce the risk of the leg being caught. And they should be simple. The tornado kick for example, perfect it is your youth. Try doing it effectively when you're 40plus and carrying your fair share of old injuries.
That's not to say kicks are bad. They are a great training tool and I guess they have real uses.
But your hand techniques. Think about your blocks that you're getting bored with. How practical are they as blocks. Imagine a punch or kick is coming in at full speed. Do you have time to do a perfect block? Think about that for a moment. Then think about the movement of the block. What else could they be? While your hand is going up to your opposite shoulder for example, what is your elbow doing? What could it be doing if modified very slightly? Think about where the hand goes when blocking. Is it knocking a punch or kick off course or is it doing something else? Think about what the other arm is doing when blocking. Think about the motion in preparing to block. In a knife hand centre for example, hands come to the hip first. Is that just setting up for the block or is that an action in itself?
We're often taught that a block is a block, but as you move up through the grades, if you haven't started to realise it for yourself yet, the instructor should start to reveal, that blocks are anything but blocks.in fact they are useless as blocks. Far too slow. But they are quite forceful actions. Think about how a high/rising block might work if your opponent has hold of you and us too close to punch or kick. Think about what your knife hand block might do to an elbow of somebody that has got hold of you.
There's a lot going on in hand techniques. Your instructor no doubt wants you to develop the techniques and the muscles that support them, so that by the time you figure out what they really are, they will be formidable techniques. Not show techniques. Not for competition. But maybe to keep you in one piece in a real scrap.
That said, he should be teaching kicks too though. |
If my instructor feels that way he picked the wrong art. Taekwondo is supposed to have a 60/40 kick/punch distribution, bare minimum. This is more like 10-20% kicking. Kicks are not taught as rigidly either. He might demonstrate a roundhouse kick half heartedly at low heights. No lectures on the proper body mechanics involved in roundhouse kicks. No lectures on how to apply kicks in sparring, that is no tactics lectures. No lectures in sparring tactics at all. Etc |
Who said taekwondo is supposed to be 60/40 kicking?
And what are 'sparring tactics'? There are no tactics in real violence. Just action. Tactics are for sport.
Taekwondo is often interpreted and presented as a sport. And that's fine. But at its roots it is very much a martial art. |
Grandmaster Howard states it here. At 0:52 https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=bNzBqRcQ-4k |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
OneKickWonder
Purple Belt
Joined: 17 Feb 2018
Posts: 513
Styles: Tang soo do
|
| Posted: Thu Apr 12, 2018 1:02 am Post subject: Re: Acceptable training in Karate or TKD with 1% kicking? |
|
|
| Prototype wrote: |
| OneKickWonder wrote: |
| Prototype wrote: |
| OneKickWonder wrote: |
| Prototype wrote: |
This is what we did yesterday: knife hand block (moving forward). Wedging block (moving forward). Twin forearm block (moving forward). Side punch. High block (moving forward). Low block (moving forward). The only kick was a warm-up (rising kick).
Blocks, blocks, blocks, and more blocks. And punches. And this is a constant pattern in our training.
Would you ask for a refund if this was your TKD or Karate place?
The fact that it's Taekwondo makes it even worse to me. |
Hand techniques are often neglected in Korean arts. I have the opposite complaint that we focus too much on kicking.
I can understand your frustration.
But, what if your instructor is the real deal? What if he or she is not interested in the impractical show moves and wants you to learn a combat art?
In a real scrap, kicks should be kept fairly low to avoid loss of balance and to reduce the risk of the leg being caught. And they should be simple. The tornado kick for example, perfect it is your youth. Try doing it effectively when you're 40plus and carrying your fair share of old injuries.
That's not to say kicks are bad. They are a great training tool and I guess they have real uses.
But your hand techniques. Think about your blocks that you're getting bored with. How practical are they as blocks. Imagine a punch or kick is coming in at full speed. Do you have time to do a perfect block? Think about that for a moment. Then think about the movement of the block. What else could they be? While your hand is going up to your opposite shoulder for example, what is your elbow doing? What could it be doing if modified very slightly? Think about where the hand goes when blocking. Is it knocking a punch or kick off course or is it doing something else? Think about what the other arm is doing when blocking. Think about the motion in preparing to block. In a knife hand centre for example, hands come to the hip first. Is that just setting up for the block or is that an action in itself?
We're often taught that a block is a block, but as you move up through the grades, if you haven't started to realise it for yourself yet, the instructor should start to reveal, that blocks are anything but blocks.in fact they are useless as blocks. Far too slow. But they are quite forceful actions. Think about how a high/rising block might work if your opponent has hold of you and us too close to punch or kick. Think about what your knife hand block might do to an elbow of somebody that has got hold of you.
There's a lot going on in hand techniques. Your instructor no doubt wants you to develop the techniques and the muscles that support them, so that by the time you figure out what they really are, they will be formidable techniques. Not show techniques. Not for competition. But maybe to keep you in one piece in a real scrap.
That said, he should be teaching kicks too though. |
If my instructor feels that way he picked the wrong art. Taekwondo is supposed to have a 60/40 kick/punch distribution, bare minimum. This is more like 10-20% kicking. Kicks are not taught as rigidly either. He might demonstrate a roundhouse kick half heartedly at low heights. No lectures on the proper body mechanics involved in roundhouse kicks. No lectures on how to apply kicks in sparring, that is no tactics lectures. No lectures in sparring tactics at all. Etc |
Who said taekwondo is supposed to be 60/40 kicking?
And what are 'sparring tactics'? There are no tactics in real violence. Just action. Tactics are for sport.
Taekwondo is often interpreted and presented as a sport. And that's fine. But at its roots it is very much a martial art. |
Grandmaster Howard states it here. At 0:52 https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=bNzBqRcQ-4k |
And was 9th Dan grandmaster Howard trained by any of the founders of Taekwondo in Korea?
I mean no disrespect to him, but the idea of attaching actual percentages to aspects of a style is laughable. If you get into a fight and you use Taekwondo, and you manage to land 6 kicks before your enemy closes you down into hands range, are you only allowed to punch 4 times before it stops being Taekwondo?
There's a similar bizarre notion in tang soo do. Apparently it's something like 60% karate, 20% northern Chinese kung fu, and 20% southern Chinese. I'm not aware that anyone has ever picked the style apart to say which bits are which. It just sounds good when summarising the style. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Prototype
Green Belt
Joined: 15 Dec 2016
Posts: 367
|
| Posted: Thu Apr 12, 2018 1:40 am Post subject: Re: Acceptable training in Karate or TKD with 1% kicking? |
|
|
| OneKickWonder wrote: |
| Prototype wrote: |
| OneKickWonder wrote: |
| Prototype wrote: |
| OneKickWonder wrote: |
| Prototype wrote: |
This is what we did yesterday: knife hand block (moving forward). Wedging block (moving forward). Twin forearm block (moving forward). Side punch. High block (moving forward). Low block (moving forward). The only kick was a warm-up (rising kick).
Blocks, blocks, blocks, and more blocks. And punches. And this is a constant pattern in our training.
Would you ask for a refund if this was your TKD or Karate place?
The fact that it's Taekwondo makes it even worse to me. |
Hand techniques are often neglected in Korean arts. I have the opposite complaint that we focus too much on kicking.
I can understand your frustration.
But, what if your instructor is the real deal? What if he or she is not interested in the impractical show moves and wants you to learn a combat art?
In a real scrap, kicks should be kept fairly low to avoid loss of balance and to reduce the risk of the leg being caught. And they should be simple. The tornado kick for example, perfect it is your youth. Try doing it effectively when you're 40plus and carrying your fair share of old injuries.
That's not to say kicks are bad. They are a great training tool and I guess they have real uses.
But your hand techniques. Think about your blocks that you're getting bored with. How practical are they as blocks. Imagine a punch or kick is coming in at full speed. Do you have time to do a perfect block? Think about that for a moment. Then think about the movement of the block. What else could they be? While your hand is going up to your opposite shoulder for example, what is your elbow doing? What could it be doing if modified very slightly? Think about where the hand goes when blocking. Is it knocking a punch or kick off course or is it doing something else? Think about what the other arm is doing when blocking. Think about the motion in preparing to block. In a knife hand centre for example, hands come to the hip first. Is that just setting up for the block or is that an action in itself?
We're often taught that a block is a block, but as you move up through the grades, if you haven't started to realise it for yourself yet, the instructor should start to reveal, that blocks are anything but blocks.in fact they are useless as blocks. Far too slow. But they are quite forceful actions. Think about how a high/rising block might work if your opponent has hold of you and us too close to punch or kick. Think about what your knife hand block might do to an elbow of somebody that has got hold of you.
There's a lot going on in hand techniques. Your instructor no doubt wants you to develop the techniques and the muscles that support them, so that by the time you figure out what they really are, they will be formidable techniques. Not show techniques. Not for competition. But maybe to keep you in one piece in a real scrap.
That said, he should be teaching kicks too though. |
If my instructor feels that way he picked the wrong art. Taekwondo is supposed to have a 60/40 kick/punch distribution, bare minimum. This is more like 10-20% kicking. Kicks are not taught as rigidly either. He might demonstrate a roundhouse kick half heartedly at low heights. No lectures on the proper body mechanics involved in roundhouse kicks. No lectures on how to apply kicks in sparring, that is no tactics lectures. No lectures in sparring tactics at all. Etc |
Who said taekwondo is supposed to be 60/40 kicking?
And what are 'sparring tactics'? There are no tactics in real violence. Just action. Tactics are for sport.
Taekwondo is often interpreted and presented as a sport. And that's fine. But at its roots it is very much a martial art. |
Grandmaster Howard states it here. At 0:52 https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=bNzBqRcQ-4k |
And was 9th Dan grandmaster Howard trained by any of the founders of Taekwondo in Korea?
I mean no disrespect to him, but the idea of attaching actual percentages to aspects of a style is laughable. If you get into a fight and you use Taekwondo, and you manage to land 6 kicks before your enemy closes you down into hands range, are you only allowed to punch 4 times before it stops being Taekwondo?
There's a similar bizarre notion in tang soo do. Apparently it's something like 60% karate, 20% northern Chinese kung fu, and 20% southern Chinese. I'm not aware that anyone has ever picked the style apart to say which bits are which. It just sounds good when summarising the style. |
You're missing the point. It's more about why take TKD classes over Karate and vice versa. The hole point of doing Taekwondo for most people is to have an emphasis on kicks, while still training hands. In Karate, you have an emphasis on hands while still training kicks. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Prototype
Green Belt
Joined: 15 Dec 2016
Posts: 367
|
| Posted: Thu Apr 12, 2018 1:45 am Post subject: Re: Acceptable training in Karate or TKD with 1% kicking? |
|
|
| He was trained by Korean Rhee Ki Ha, who was General Chois favourite student. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
OneKickWonder
Purple Belt
Joined: 17 Feb 2018
Posts: 513
Styles: Tang soo do
|
| Posted: Thu Apr 12, 2018 3:18 am Post subject: Re: Acceptable training in Karate or TKD with 1% kicking? |
|
|
| Prototype wrote: |
| OneKickWonder wrote: |
| Prototype wrote: |
| OneKickWonder wrote: |
| Prototype wrote: |
| OneKickWonder wrote: |
| Prototype wrote: |
This is what we did yesterday: knife hand block (moving forward). Wedging block (moving forward). Twin forearm block (moving forward). Side punch. High block (moving forward). Low block (moving forward). The only kick was a warm-up (rising kick).
Blocks, blocks, blocks, and more blocks. And punches. And this is a constant pattern in our training.
Would you ask for a refund if this was your TKD or Karate place?
The fact that it's Taekwondo makes it even worse to me. |
Hand techniques are often neglected in Korean arts. I have the opposite complaint that we focus too much on kicking.
I can understand your frustration.
But, what if your instructor is the real deal? What if he or she is not interested in the impractical show moves and wants you to learn a combat art?
In a real scrap, kicks should be kept fairly low to avoid loss of balance and to reduce the risk of the leg being caught. And they should be simple. The tornado kick for example, perfect it is your youth. Try doing it effectively when you're 40plus and carrying your fair share of old injuries.
That's not to say kicks are bad. They are a great training tool and I guess they have real uses.
But your hand techniques. Think about your blocks that you're getting bored with. How practical are they as blocks. Imagine a punch or kick is coming in at full speed. Do you have time to do a perfect block? Think about that for a moment. Then think about the movement of the block. What else could they be? While your hand is going up to your opposite shoulder for example, what is your elbow doing? What could it be doing if modified very slightly? Think about where the hand goes when blocking. Is it knocking a punch or kick off course or is it doing something else? Think about what the other arm is doing when blocking. Think about the motion in preparing to block. In a knife hand centre for example, hands come to the hip first. Is that just setting up for the block or is that an action in itself?
We're often taught that a block is a block, but as you move up through the grades, if you haven't started to realise it for yourself yet, the instructor should start to reveal, that blocks are anything but blocks.in fact they are useless as blocks. Far too slow. But they are quite forceful actions. Think about how a high/rising block might work if your opponent has hold of you and us too close to punch or kick. Think about what your knife hand block might do to an elbow of somebody that has got hold of you.
There's a lot going on in hand techniques. Your instructor no doubt wants you to develop the techniques and the muscles that support them, so that by the time you figure out what they really are, they will be formidable techniques. Not show techniques. Not for competition. But maybe to keep you in one piece in a real scrap.
That said, he should be teaching kicks too though. |
If my instructor feels that way he picked the wrong art. Taekwondo is supposed to have a 60/40 kick/punch distribution, bare minimum. This is more like 10-20% kicking. Kicks are not taught as rigidly either. He might demonstrate a roundhouse kick half heartedly at low heights. No lectures on the proper body mechanics involved in roundhouse kicks. No lectures on how to apply kicks in sparring, that is no tactics lectures. No lectures in sparring tactics at all. Etc |
Who said taekwondo is supposed to be 60/40 kicking?
And what are 'sparring tactics'? There are no tactics in real violence. Just action. Tactics are for sport.
Taekwondo is often interpreted and presented as a sport. And that's fine. But at its roots it is very much a martial art. |
Grandmaster Howard states it here. At 0:52 https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=bNzBqRcQ-4k |
And was 9th Dan grandmaster Howard trained by any of the founders of Taekwondo in Korea?
I mean no disrespect to him, but the idea of attaching actual percentages to aspects of a style is laughable. If you get into a fight and you use Taekwondo, and you manage to land 6 kicks before your enemy closes you down into hands range, are you only allowed to punch 4 times before it stops being Taekwondo?
There's a similar bizarre notion in tang soo do. Apparently it's something like 60% karate, 20% northern Chinese kung fu, and 20% southern Chinese. I'm not aware that anyone has ever picked the style apart to say which bits are which. It just sounds good when summarising the style. |
You're missing the point. It's more about why take TKD classes over Karate and vice versa. The hole point of doing Taekwondo for most people is to have an emphasis on kicks, while still training hands. In Karate, you have an emphasis on hands while still training kicks. |
With respect, I get the point, but I think you're missing my point.
Taekwondo has some epic hand techniques in it as well as kicks. Unless the school promises a particular focus, then surely it is up to the chief instructor of the school to decide where to place the emphasis? It is the up to each student to decide if they like what's on offer.
Tang soo do covers the broad range. In ours, our chief instructor loves kicking. Another instructor can't really kick any more due to a past injury, and a third is an epic grappler. We can guess what the focus will be depending on who is standing up front. But it's all one style.
If I were at your club, I might love it. I'm not really a fan of kicking too much. A kicker might hate the very same club. It's an individual thing but doesn't necessarily point to a problem with the teacher. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Prototype
Green Belt
Joined: 15 Dec 2016
Posts: 367
|
| Posted: Thu Apr 12, 2018 4:18 am Post subject: Re: Acceptable training in Karate or TKD with 1% kicking? |
|
|
| OneKickWonder wrote: |
| Prototype wrote: |
| OneKickWonder wrote: |
| Prototype wrote: |
| OneKickWonder wrote: |
| Prototype wrote: |
| OneKickWonder wrote: |
| Prototype wrote: |
This is what we did yesterday: knife hand block (moving forward). Wedging block (moving forward). Twin forearm block (moving forward). Side punch. High block (moving forward). Low block (moving forward). The only kick was a warm-up (rising kick).
Blocks, blocks, blocks, and more blocks. And punches. And this is a constant pattern in our training.
Would you ask for a refund if this was your TKD or Karate place?
The fact that it's Taekwondo makes it even worse to me. |
Hand techniques are often neglected in Korean arts. I have the opposite complaint that we focus too much on kicking.
I can understand your frustration.
But, what if your instructor is the real deal? What if he or she is not interested in the impractical show moves and wants you to learn a combat art?
In a real scrap, kicks should be kept fairly low to avoid loss of balance and to reduce the risk of the leg being caught. And they should be simple. The tornado kick for example, perfect it is your youth. Try doing it effectively when you're 40plus and carrying your fair share of old injuries.
That's not to say kicks are bad. They are a great training tool and I guess they have real uses.
But your hand techniques. Think about your blocks that you're getting bored with. How practical are they as blocks. Imagine a punch or kick is coming in at full speed. Do you have time to do a perfect block? Think about that for a moment. Then think about the movement of the block. What else could they be? While your hand is going up to your opposite shoulder for example, what is your elbow doing? What could it be doing if modified very slightly? Think about where the hand goes when blocking. Is it knocking a punch or kick off course or is it doing something else? Think about what the other arm is doing when blocking. Think about the motion in preparing to block. In a knife hand centre for example, hands come to the hip first. Is that just setting up for the block or is that an action in itself?
We're often taught that a block is a block, but as you move up through the grades, if you haven't started to realise it for yourself yet, the instructor should start to reveal, that blocks are anything but blocks.in fact they are useless as blocks. Far too slow. But they are quite forceful actions. Think about how a high/rising block might work if your opponent has hold of you and us too close to punch or kick. Think about what your knife hand block might do to an elbow of somebody that has got hold of you.
There's a lot going on in hand techniques. Your instructor no doubt wants you to develop the techniques and the muscles that support them, so that by the time you figure out what they really are, they will be formidable techniques. Not show techniques. Not for competition. But maybe to keep you in one piece in a real scrap.
That said, he should be teaching kicks too though. |
If my instructor feels that way he picked the wrong art. Taekwondo is supposed to have a 60/40 kick/punch distribution, bare minimum. This is more like 10-20% kicking. Kicks are not taught as rigidly either. He might demonstrate a roundhouse kick half heartedly at low heights. No lectures on the proper body mechanics involved in roundhouse kicks. No lectures on how to apply kicks in sparring, that is no tactics lectures. No lectures in sparring tactics at all. Etc |
Who said taekwondo is supposed to be 60/40 kicking?
And what are 'sparring tactics'? There are no tactics in real violence. Just action. Tactics are for sport.
Taekwondo is often interpreted and presented as a sport. And that's fine. But at its roots it is very much a martial art. |
Grandmaster Howard states it here. At 0:52 https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=bNzBqRcQ-4k |
And was 9th Dan grandmaster Howard trained by any of the founders of Taekwondo in Korea?
I mean no disrespect to him, but the idea of attaching actual percentages to aspects of a style is laughable. If you get into a fight and you use Taekwondo, and you manage to land 6 kicks before your enemy closes you down into hands range, are you only allowed to punch 4 times before it stops being Taekwondo?
There's a similar bizarre notion in tang soo do. Apparently it's something like 60% karate, 20% northern Chinese kung fu, and 20% southern Chinese. I'm not aware that anyone has ever picked the style apart to say which bits are which. It just sounds good when summarising the style. |
You're missing the point. It's more about why take TKD classes over Karate and vice versa. The hole point of doing Taekwondo for most people is to have an emphasis on kicks, while still training hands. In Karate, you have an emphasis on hands while still training kicks. |
With respect, I get the point, but I think you're missing my point.
Taekwondo has some epic hand techniques in it as well as kicks. Unless the school promises a particular focus, then surely it is up to the chief instructor of the school to decide where to place the emphasis? It is the up to each student to decide if they like what's on offer.
Tang soo do covers the broad range. In ours, our chief instructor loves kicking. Another instructor can't really kick any more due to a past injury, and a third is an epic grappler. We can guess what the focus will be depending on who is standing up front. But it's all one style.
If I were at your club, I might love it. I'm not really a fan of kicking too much. A kicker might hate the very same club. It's an individual thing but doesn't necessarily point to a problem with the teacher. |
That's what buggs me. I am confident that if my instructor was younger, then he would have more advanced kicking lectures, instead of just front and side kicks. The assistant instructors lesson have a majority of the time spent on kicks. He also said it was much more training in kicking during the 80s and early 90s. Now we barely scratch the surface, just because the instructor stiffened. Why not just use his assistant instructor for more elaborate stuff? Now we're stuck on blocks and front kicks |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
|
on the post.
