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OneKickWonder
Purple Belt
Purple Belt

Joined: 17 Feb 2018
Posts: 513

Styles: Tang soo do

PostPosted: Sat Aug 11, 2018 11:46 am    Post subject: Aikido rolls Reply with quote

You get to practice lots of rolls in Aikido. It's great fun. And the reason you practice them is because sometimes it's the easiest and safest way out of a joint lock. Incidentally that's something that leads to a lot of misunderstanding about aikido when folks see people deliberately diving and rolling after the slightest touch, so people think it's fake, when in fact the dive and roll is as much part of the demo as the technique they are escaping.

But anyway. Back to my point. Diving and rolling on a mat is one thing. But in the real world, I don't think I'd want to dive and roll on a concrete floor. A floor which if a fight is happening, may be covered in broken beer bottles and who knows what.

So apart from the safety of the dojo, is there any use for the aikido roll?

As an aside, I keep calling it the Aikido roll. I know it's not exclusive to Aikido, I'm just calling it that because I think most will know what I mean without having to offer a detailed description.
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LLLEARNER
Brown Belt
Brown Belt

Joined: 10 Feb 2016
Posts: 687
Location: Central Maine

PostPosted: Sat Aug 11, 2018 2:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Many times a real confrontation ends up on the ground. We have been on the ground in hospital rooms. Those are confined spaces with lots of people, hazardous objects and equipment in the way. It is something you just have to deal with and accept as part of reality. Learning how to fall and roll safely applies to the "street" as well.
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TJ-Jitsu
Blue Belt
Blue Belt

Joined: 30 Sep 2014
Posts: 316
Location: PA
Styles: Gracie Jiu Jitsu, Muay Thai

PostPosted: Sun Aug 12, 2018 12:43 am    Post subject: Re: Aikido rolls Reply with quote

OneKickWonder wrote:
You get to practice lots of rolls in Aikido. It's great fun. And the reason you practice them is because sometimes it's the easiest and safest way out of a joint lock. Incidentally that's something that leads to a lot of misunderstanding about aikido when folks see people deliberately diving and rolling after the slightest touch, so people think it's fake, when in fact the dive and roll is as much part of the demo as the technique they are escaping.

But anyway. Back to my point. Diving and rolling on a mat is one thing. But in the real world, I don't think I'd want to dive and roll on a concrete floor. A floor which if a fight is happening, may be covered in broken beer bottles and who knows what.

So apart from the safety of the dojo, is there any use for the aikido roll?

As an aside, I keep calling it the Aikido roll. I know it's not exclusive to Aikido, I'm just calling it that because I think most will know what I mean without having to offer a detailed description.


You kinda answered your own question- the roll is the means of alleviating the joint lock. Break falls spread the impact over the entirety of your body rather than an individual joint. Your body as a whole can take most of these impacts, the individual joints not so much.

So that said you dont *have* to roll in the "real world" but then you've made a choice havent you? And now your arm in snapped in two....

Id rather take my chances hitting whatever is on the ground and keeping my limbs intact.
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mushybees
Orange Belt
Orange Belt

Joined: 16 Nov 2014
Posts: 198
Location: UK
Styles: Wado ryu

PostPosted: Sun Aug 12, 2018 5:18 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

No one wants to have to roll or get on the floor outside of the dojo/gym.
Newaza? eeww!
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bushido_man96
KF Sensei
KF Sensei

Joined: 31 Mar 2006
Posts: 27757
Location: Hays, KS
Styles: Taekwondo, Combat Hapkido, Aikido, GRACIE

PostPosted: Mon Aug 13, 2018 12:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Rolling is good to know how to do, because it beats falling down. Breakfalls are useful to know, and they are a derivative or rolling.

I look at it this way; rolling and breakfalls are controlled, falling is not. I'd rather be in control.
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MatsuShinshii
Black Belt
Black Belt

Joined: 15 Aug 2016
Posts: 1423
Location: Kentucky
Styles: Machimura Suidi Rokudan, Ryukyu Kenpo, Kobudo, Judo

PostPosted: Tue Aug 28, 2018 5:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

bushido_man96 wrote:
Rolling is good to know how to do, because it beats falling down. Breakfalls are useful to know, and they are a derivative or rolling.

I look at it this way; rolling and breakfalls are controlled, falling is not. I'd rather be in control.


I like that way of thinking. Good point.
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singularity6
Pre-Black Belt
Pre-Black Belt

Joined: 26 Jun 2017
Posts: 958
Location: Michigan
Styles: Jidokwan Taekwondo and Hapkido, Yoshokai Aikido, ZNIR Iaido, Kendo

PostPosted: Wed Aug 29, 2018 4:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I've seen people fall hard on tile floor. A couple times, it was my instructors demonstrating why it's important to fall correctly.

Another time was one of our black belts sparring in a tournament. He's the one I mentioned in another post about being a junior black belt and advancing fast... At any rate, he was about 13 or 14 at the time (2nd degree jr. bb) and had no one else to compete with, so they tossed him in with the adults. His sparring partner was twice his size. He lost, but did quite well. Landed a spinning jumping hook kick to the opponents head, but ended up falling on the tile gym floor. He nailed the fall with a backward roll, ended up on his feet, and continued to fight.
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Wastelander
KF Sensei
KF Sensei

Joined: 18 Oct 2010
Posts: 2431
Location: Phoenix, AZ
Styles: Shorin-Ryu, Shuri-Ryu, Judo, KishimotoDi

PostPosted: Wed Aug 29, 2018 10:11 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Slips, trips, and falls are the leading cause of accidental injury and death--the average person is FAR more likely to slip, trip, or fall and be injured than they are to be attacked. Knowing how to fall safely is probably the most important self defense technique you will ever learn.

Doing it in a fight? Still better than cracking your head on the ground, or breaking an arm that you still need to use for fighting.
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Shorin-Ryu | 2010-Present: Nidan | Sensei: Richard Poage, Jeff Allred
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mushybees
Orange Belt
Orange Belt

Joined: 16 Nov 2014
Posts: 198
Location: UK
Styles: Wado ryu

PostPosted: Sat Oct 06, 2018 12:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I forgot about this thread.
A couple of weeks after seeing this I had a tumble down garden steps whilst carrying my 3 year old son. I fell forward and would have landed on him if I hadn't flipped over. No injury to either of us except for a small bruise on my leg.

It's possible my instinct to not squish my own spawn would have resulted in the same actions. I thank ukemi anyway.
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Chunmonchek
Orange Belt
Orange Belt

Joined: 10 May 2012
Posts: 177

Styles: Goju

PostPosted: Sat Oct 06, 2018 1:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Our groundwork...falls, rolls and dives...are all trained without mats or tatami

I do have a fair amount of Judo and JuJutsu training on mats though
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