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GoshinKaikuRyu
White Belt
White Belt

Joined: 16 Mar 2006
Posts: 21
Location: Tampa

PostPosted: Fri Mar 17, 2006 12:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I cleaned for lessons for a year or so.

I'm not sure how I feel about it as a requirement.

The most vital thing regarding training or requirements of any kind for ANYTHING (not just rank) in your martial arts school is the ability for you to ask "why"?

I encourage my students to constantly be asking me why we do things or what is the significance of ANYTHING. I've decided that on the day that I cannot come up with a legitimate answer for that question, I will change whatever they are asking about in order for it to make sense.

If their reasoning behind it is having something to do with what the school is giving you and you needing to give back to the school, ask if you can do something more meaningful to you and your fellow testers. Maybe you can build something of use to the dojo together, kind of like a "class gift". This seems to make more sense to me than cleaning the mirrors.

Definitely ask "why", see what they say, and heed my advice. Let me know if this helps.

Sensei Michele Agius
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jaymac
Black Belt
Black Belt

Joined: 14 Dec 2005
Posts: 1133

Styles: shotokan (nidan)

PostPosted: Fri Mar 17, 2006 2:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

After classes at night, the last class always cleans. It is part of having respect for the training area. Many dojo's practice this. However, I know for a fact that it is not a requirement in our dojo in order to receive rank. And as for the community thing, I would be mad. I work a full time job at night, sleep in day, and train as often as possible. When the heck would I find time to add community services so that I could get a BB. No way. Not that I wouldn't want to help others. But I would like to do it on my own free will.
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karatekid1975
KF VIP

Joined: 26 Mar 2002
Posts: 4588
Location: Upstate NY
Styles: Tang Soo Do/TKD/jujitsu

PostPosted: Sat Mar 18, 2006 10:31 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

jaymac, you have a good point. I now have a full time job (during the day), which attendence is VERY important (unless it's for a good reason like docs appointment, ect). So I can't just take the day off for community service. Plus I still have my part time job (at night and weekends). I don't know if I'll be able to do it either. I might in a month or two when I dump the part time job, but who knows.

GoshinKaikuRyu, thanks for the advice. Maybe I can talk to my instructor to see if I can do something else. There is this one guy that can't make it on saturdays for cleaning, so he comes in and fixes/manages the school's computer system once per week.
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Laurie F
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NothingsShadow
Yellow Belt
Yellow Belt

Joined: 03 Apr 2006
Posts: 32
Location: Australia
Styles: Karate-do, Kendo

PostPosted: Mon Apr 03, 2006 10:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Perhaps karatekid1975 the answer you are looking for has something to do with you signature. "Perfection of Character" takes a lot more than just doing kick and punches, it also takes a lot more than training hard and pushing yourself as far as you can go. Maybe your Sensei is attempting to instil the respect and discipline that is required of a dan grade outside of training, showing you that being a dan grade isn't about perfecting one part of your character but about striving to perfect every part of your life (that might sound a bit deep).

Now whether or not your case is that right approach is another matter, if you dojo is a professional one (i.e. the man out the front is making serious $$ of it) then I agree that cleaning and the like should be paid for by the dojo. But if the dojo is just a normal non-profit dojo then who else is going to do this cleaning, if you use the facility you should keep it clean and help maintain it.

I think volunteering in some way in your dojo is an important part of your training and I can understand that you Sensei may make it mandatory to advance in rank. The shear fact that a Kyu grade understands that they must volunteer in the dojo (and why) indicates that they are advancing and they are ready for the next grade.
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Isshinryu_heart
Yellow Belt
Yellow Belt

Joined: 07 Jan 2006
Posts: 75
Location: New Jersey
Styles: Isshinryu, kali, judo

PostPosted: Tue Apr 04, 2006 8:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

In my dojo, the last class at night always cleans up. Every month we switch off which class has to do the major cleaning, so it's not so bad. If everyone does one thing, it gets done really quickly.

Also, we don't make the white belts clean. Or rather, we don't let them clean. Once they get color on their belt is when they are expected to make an effort to the dojo.
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bushido_man96
KF Sensei
KF Sensei

Joined: 31 Mar 2006
Posts: 29283
Location: Hays, KS
Styles: Taekwondo, Combat Hapkido, Aikido, GRACIE

PostPosted: Fri Apr 07, 2006 6:49 pm    Post subject: Black Belt testing Reply with quote

In our school we have to make two classes a week minimum, and then log around 40 hours (which adds up to the two months before the testing) of time doing things like teaching orientations and helping to teach some classes, and stuff like that. All those things help prepare the future black belt for teaching. Then they have to write a one page paper telling what TKD means to them, what their future plans for TKD are, and some goals and stuff.
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greenbelt_girl15
Green Belt
Green Belt

Joined: 02 Mar 2005
Posts: 438
Location: alaska
Styles: Cuong Nhu

PostPosted: Fri Apr 14, 2006 10:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

well, for black belt in cuong nhu the only extra requirement is assistant teaching.
In my dojo we start a tiny bit of assistant teaching from around one green stripe.And realy start assistant teaching at green belt, I've even solo taught one time.
once you get to first dan first aid and CPR training is required to pass your test. We arn't required to clean, we do it any ways just because
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2 Timothy 1:7
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Drag'n
Orange Belt
Orange Belt

Joined: 15 Jan 2005
Posts: 224
Location: Tokyo, Japan
Styles: Daidojuku/Kudo ,Muay Thai, TKD.......

PostPosted: Sat Apr 15, 2006 6:41 am    Post subject: Re: BB testing requirements (outside the curriculum) Reply with quote

JWLuiza wrote:

You are free labor. You pay them for lessons which pays for the building and they are abusing you to clean the dojo. (At least that is one way to look at it). You pay them to provide teaching and they use you for that as well... You are in a martial arts dojo/jang not a HS group or a fraternity/sorority. Your black belt should be based on your martial arts, not community service.

We have no requirements outside of skill, but still have the involvement and volunteers.

Or maybe I'm spoiled.


Wow, this really leaves me in a state of culture shock. In Japan evrybody cleans the dojo every time after training. We dont even think about it as a chore. We respect our dojo and our instructor. Its our sweat and blood on the floor and our responsibility to clean it up.
Traditional Asian Martial arts training is about more than just fighting. Perfection of character and self refinement are an integral part of the culture, and it is most stressed in martial disciplins.
I never view my dojo as a business. Its more than just paying for a service. Its a way of living.
I just dont get your attitude at all.
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karatekid1975
KF VIP

Joined: 26 Mar 2002
Posts: 4588
Location: Upstate NY
Styles: Tang Soo Do/TKD/jujitsu

PostPosted: Sat Apr 15, 2006 7:36 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Drag'n, it's not that I don't respect our dojang. It's the way my instructor goes about doing it. I don't mind cleaning after class (the last class does sweep up and straighten up a bit). If we were a small dojang, I wouldn't mind at all. But this is a commercial place. They charge a lot for tuition. And the cleaning thing is requirement for BB. If you don't do it (or can't because of work, home life, ect on sat) you don't get your BB. Some people work on saturdays, and they just can't do it. This dojang makes enough money to hire someone to clean.
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Laurie F
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Red J
Black Belt
Black Belt

Joined: 11 Aug 2002
Posts: 2278
Location: WPB, FL
Styles: Shaolin Kempo Sandan

PostPosted: Sat Apr 15, 2006 1:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Drag'n, how does it work in Japan? More specifically:

How much do you have to pay to train? Are there fees for testing? Do you have dojos in strip malls?
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