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bushido_man96
KF Sensei
Joined: 31 Mar 2006
Posts: 30188
Location: Hays, KS
Styles: Taekwondo, Combat Hapkido, Aikido, GRACIE, Police Krav Maga, SPEAR
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 Posted: Mon Apr 26, 2010 10:46 pm Post subject: |
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I think that another part of being an honest uke is not only in receiving the technique, but also in presenting an honest attack for the nage to deal with. Making sure that the attack is one that is somewhat reasonable in design, and also delivered with intent and purpose.
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ninjanurse
KF VIP
Joined: 13 Feb 2003
Posts: 6154
Location: Upstate NY
Styles: TKD;Shotokan;JuJitsu;Tai Ji
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| Posted: Tue Apr 27, 2010 6:39 am Post subject: |
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I agree here....getting some students to understand this concept is often difficult though.
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DWx
Black Belt
Joined: 17 Jan 2007
Posts: 6455
Location: UK
Styles: Tae Kwon Do & Yang family Tai Chi
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| Posted: Tue Apr 27, 2010 8:33 am Post subject: |
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Great article.
| bushido_man96 wrote: |
| I think that another part of being an honest uke is not only in receiving the technique, but also in presenting an honest attack for the nage to deal with. Making sure that the attack is one that is somewhat reasonable in design, and also delivered with intent and purpose. |
Totally agree with this. I hate it when people throw a punch but don't even try to make it connect. In most cases I'll just leave it and not block and if they ask why, its because I didn't need to block.
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joesteph
Black Belt
Joined: 11 Aug 2008
Posts: 2753
Location: USA
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| Posted: Tue Apr 27, 2010 1:07 pm Post subject: |
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| bushido_man96 wrote: |
I think that another part of being an honest uke is not only in receiving the technique, but also in presenting an honest attack for the nage to deal with.
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I'm not familiar with the term nage, Brian. I only know tori and uke.
| DWx wrote: |
I hate it when people throw a punch but don't even try to make it connect. In most cases I'll just leave it and not block and if they ask why, its because I didn't need to block.
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When this has occurred with me, Danielle, I've actually taken the puncher's fist and bumped it against my own face. Then I've said that it has to be realistic, and that I'll block. I know what's coming and that it's at a moderate speed, so . . .
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bushido_man96
KF Sensei
Joined: 31 Mar 2006
Posts: 30188
Location: Hays, KS
Styles: Taekwondo, Combat Hapkido, Aikido, GRACIE, Police Krav Maga, SPEAR
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| Posted: Tue Apr 27, 2010 11:12 pm Post subject: |
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Sorry, Joe. Tori is probably more appropriate.
| DWx wrote: |
| bushido_man96 wrote: |
| I think that another part of being an honest uke is not only in receiving the technique, but also in presenting an honest attack for the nage to deal with. Making sure that the attack is one that is somewhat reasonable in design, and also delivered with intent and purpose. |
Totally agree with this. I hate it when people throw a punch but don't even try to make it connect. In most cases I'll just leave it and not block and if they ask why, its because I didn't need to block. |
The other end I experience on this, mainly with one-steps, is when the defender will yell and then move right away...if I see this going on, I'll delay my attack, so that they aren't getting so anticipatory.
The other thing I see happening is when the attacker punches to where they know the defender is going to move to. Both are not good deals.
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DWx
Black Belt
Joined: 17 Jan 2007
Posts: 6455
Location: UK
Styles: Tae Kwon Do & Yang family Tai Chi
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| Posted: Wed Apr 28, 2010 4:59 pm Post subject: |
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| bushido_man96 wrote: |
The other end I experience on this, mainly with one-steps, is when the defender will yell and then move right away...if I see this going on, I'll delay my attack, so that they aren't getting so anticipatory. |
Luckily we don't actually have predefined one-steps and unless specified the attack can be anything. Unless the defender is wanting to dodge first, they can't anticipate what they're going to do. But yeah moving before the attack is even initiated is also a waste of time.
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JiuJitsuNation
Green Belt
Joined: 09 May 2010
Posts: 447
Location: ominpresent
Styles: BJJ Judo
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| Posted: Sun Jun 06, 2010 10:10 am Post subject: |
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Being a good uke in my opinion and method of teaching is this. Allow the one applying the technique to follow through with no resistance., EVER! while practicing or learning the move. 20 minutes at the in of EVERY class is set aside for live training where the goal is to catch the move of the day, or any they know, on a resisting opponent. There are many components that are missing in most training regimens and without these thing one simply cannot be affective when going "live". Resisting during the muscle memory development part of the drill or while your instructor is teaching is not the time. I shouldn't have to put my student through pain and risk injury because they hard headed.
At the same time if you are practicing a choke and the person applying it is not choking you without you resisting then you should let them know i'm not feeling it. But to practice an armbar to the point that you FORCE your team mate to tapout every time, then you are shorting your or his longevity in ma. This brings on arthritis and tendonitis.
The point of drilling is muscle memory. Resistance is for live training. demonstration is for DEMONSTRATING lol
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sensei8
KF Sensei
Joined: 23 Feb 2008
Posts: 16430
Location: Las Vegas, NV
Styles: Shindokan Saitou-ryu [Shuri-te/Okinawa-te based]
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| Posted: Sun Jun 06, 2010 10:25 am Post subject: |
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| JiuJitsuNation wrote: |
Being a good uke in my opinion and method of teaching is this. Allow the one applying the technique to follow through with no resistance., EVER! while practicing or learning the move. 20 minutes at the in of EVERY class is set aside for live training where the goal is to catch the move of the day, or any they know, on a resisting opponent. There are many components that are missing in most training regimens and without these thing one simply cannot be affective when going "live". Resisting during the muscle memory development part of the drill or while your instructor is teaching is not the time. I shouldn't have to put my student through pain and risk injury because they hard headed.
At the same time if you are practicing a choke and the person applying it is not choking you without you resisting then you should let them know i'm not feeling it. But to practice an armbar to the point that you FORCE your team mate to tapout every time, then you are shorting your or his longevity in ma. This brings on arthritis and tendonitis.
The point of drilling is muscle memory. Resistance is for live training. demonstration is for DEMONSTRATING lol |
Another very solid post!!!!!!!!
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joesteph
Black Belt
Joined: 11 Aug 2008
Posts: 2753
Location: USA
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| Posted: Sun Jun 06, 2010 10:32 am Post subject: |
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| JiuJitsuNation wrote: |
[T]o practice an armbar to the point that you FORCE your team mate to tapout every time, then you are shorting your or his longevity in ma. This brings on arthritis and tendonitis.
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When my Soo Bahk Do teacher had us perform joint locks, she was interested in uke feeling the pressure and tapping, not necessarily the pain. She even brought out that registering pain takes a bit of a second, a "lag time," meaning that tori is still exerting pressure during uke's brain registering and hand-tapping phase. Sure, there are differences between people in terms of natural bending and even pain tolerance, but wrenching uke's wrist, elbow, etc. is just a lack of control.
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JiuJitsuNation
Green Belt
Joined: 09 May 2010
Posts: 447
Location: ominpresent
Styles: BJJ Judo
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| Posted: Sun Jun 06, 2010 10:54 am Post subject: |
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josteph what you say may be so. But it doesn't negate the long terms effects on your joints. I ask my students not to make each other tap during the muscle memory drills. Now during live training they can all they wish and do. But in live training you may get arm barred with force 5 or 6 times that day. but if you had to tap every single time your partner drilled, you may have had that joint manipulated another 50 times! Which speeds you on your way to joint pain as you get older. I am simply trying to teach them how to stay on the mats longer with less joint pain.
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on the post.
