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Prototype
Green Belt
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Joined: 15 Dec 2016
Posts: 367


PostPosted: Thu Feb 01, 2018 8:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

singularity6 wrote:
Prototype wrote:
Also, isn't there a trade off benefit of disguise if I chamber low? How could you know which height the kick will land at?

If I chamber high, it will be mid or high section for sure


We chamber high even if we kick to the knee.


Yeah but that doesn't answer my question. ITF chamber is preferrably high too due to the power, the only difference is that it's semi circular. Mine is lower because I don't have the flexibility to chamber better. But I do get a nice snaping motion anyway and plenty of power from my big legs. my point is that you can't read where the kick will will land if it's low chambering.

I don't know what technique you meant kicking to the knees, That's not aan allowed sparring technique. Do you mean low kicks?
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singularity6
Pre-Black Belt
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Joined: 26 Jun 2017
Posts: 958
Location: Michigan
Styles: Jidokwan Taekwondo and Hapkido, Yoshokai Aikido, ZNIR Iaido, Kendo

PostPosted: Thu Feb 01, 2018 8:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Prototype wrote:
singularity6 wrote:
Prototype wrote:
Also, isn't there a trade off benefit of disguise if I chamber low? How could you know which height the kick will land at?

If I chamber high, it will be mid or high section for sure


We chamber high even if we kick to the knee.


Yeah but that doesn't answer my question. ITF chamber is preferrably high too due to the power, the only difference is that it's semi circular. Mine is lower because I don't have the flexibility to chamber better. But I do get a nice snaping motion anyway and plenty of power from my big legs. my point is that you can't read where the kick will will land if it's low chambering.

I don't know what technique you meant kicking to the knees, That's not aan allowed sparring technique. Do you mean low kicks?


We don't learn tournament sparring unless we plan to go to a tournament. Kicking to the knee, striking the throat/groin/eyes... all part of what we do. It's pretty old-school.
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DWx
KF Sensei
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Joined: 17 Jan 2007
Posts: 6139
Location: UK
Styles: Tae Kwon Do & Yang family Tai Chi

PostPosted: Fri Feb 02, 2018 5:10 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Prototype wrote:
Also, isn't there a trade off benefit of disguise if I chamber low? How could you know which height the kick will land at?

If I chamber high, it will be mid or high section for sure

If possible you still want a higher chamber even when kicking lower. Better to come down onto the target than kick upwards. Try breaking with the kick. Ideal technique comes out horizontally but slightly downwards is ok. Upwards and you will struggle to break the boards.

I would also say that a higher chamber is better for sparring. A lower chamber and a kick that travels up is easier to jam and come over the top of. Higher chambers are much harder to tackle as it's more difficult to stop the knee.
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DWx
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Joined: 17 Jan 2007
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Location: UK
Styles: Tae Kwon Do & Yang family Tai Chi

PostPosted: Fri Feb 02, 2018 5:13 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Prototype wrote:
DWx wrote:
For ITF its not so unconventional but kicking at that speed is detracting from your technique. It is fast but I would sacrifice some of that to hone the technique further.

For ITF you need to drive your chamber higher before the leg extends. If the attacking tool is balkal, at the moment it swings in an arc upwards and across. For more power and for a kick that is harder to defend it should travel almost horizontally to the target with the hips lined up behind. As the kick travels across now you will lose power because the mass isn't behind the foot.

So this is your chamber and the direction the kick travels: https://photos.app.goo.gl/swh4i8HdNj0JuVb73

Ideally you would chamber higher and tighter so that the kick travels directly towards the camera with the hips in alignment behind. So all of your mass is moving to the target.

If you look at your finish position, for a conventional kick you would finish on the green line here:
https://photos.app.goo.gl/df0NC1r7365ivAY82

Like this: https://photos.app.goo.gl/uFLnakhfnuZWqxf52

I think at the moment you are over rotational because the chamber is not high enough. And possibly your core isn't resisting the rotation. Hard to say looking at one angle. For an exercise to correct this, stand in a parallel stance next to something like a chair and practice chambering up and then kicking over the chair. Go slow first and then you can work back to that speed.

Hope this helps.


I think you hit the nail on the head. my hip does not allow a higher chambering. I'm a red belt so if it's not higher now then I think body mechanics has spoken. But does it matter if I have good control over my body nonetheless and power?


I think it's still something you can improve on. Stretching will help you get to that position and practice practice practice will help develop the control.
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Prototype
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Joined: 15 Dec 2016
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 02, 2018 5:36 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

DWx wrote:
Prototype wrote:
DWx wrote:
For ITF its not so unconventional but kicking at that speed is detracting from your technique. It is fast but I would sacrifice some of that to hone the technique further.

For ITF you need to drive your chamber higher before the leg extends. If the attacking tool is balkal, at the moment it swings in an arc upwards and across. For more power and for a kick that is harder to defend it should travel almost horizontally to the target with the hips lined up behind. As the kick travels across now you will lose power because the mass isn't behind the foot.

So this is your chamber and the direction the kick travels: https://photos.app.goo.gl/swh4i8HdNj0JuVb73

Ideally you would chamber higher and tighter so that the kick travels directly towards the camera with the hips in alignment behind. So all of your mass is moving to the target.

If you look at your finish position, for a conventional kick you would finish on the green line here:
https://photos.app.goo.gl/df0NC1r7365ivAY82

Like this: https://photos.app.goo.gl/uFLnakhfnuZWqxf52

I think at the moment you are over rotational because the chamber is not high enough. And possibly your core isn't resisting the rotation. Hard to say looking at one angle. For an exercise to correct this, stand in a parallel stance next to something like a chair and practice chambering up and then kicking over the chair. Go slow first and then you can work back to that speed.

Hope this helps.


I think you hit the nail on the head. my hip does not allow a higher chambering. I'm a red belt so if it's not higher now then I think body mechanics has spoken. But does it matter if I have good control over my body nonetheless and power?


I think it's still something you can improve on. Stretching will help you get to that position and practice practice practice will help develop the control.


I have tried and tried. Dedicated stetching beyond classes stiffens rather than makes me more flexible. I have been on rigid stretching schedules, and my body is totally non response. My muscles just get tired.

I am most flexible when I don't stretch much. And that leaves me around the current level.

Also, I would rather chamber lower and get the desired snapping motion, than a higher chamber which slows me down.


Last edited by Prototype on Fri Feb 02, 2018 5:42 am; edited 1 time in total
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Prototype
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 02, 2018 5:40 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

how well do I kick compared to an average student? I would think I'm better than average, because flexible students aren't necessarily mastering forward momentum, twist and snap.

I have seen guys doing the splits who can't get much power or snap out of their sidekicks.


Last edited by Prototype on Fri Feb 02, 2018 6:03 am; edited 1 time in total
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Prototype
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Joined: 15 Dec 2016
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 02, 2018 5:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

DWx wrote:
Prototype wrote:
Also, isn't there a trade off benefit of disguise if I chamber low? How could you know which height the kick will land at?

If I chamber high, it will be mid or high section for sure

If possible you still want a higher chamber even when kicking lower. Better to come down onto the target than kick upwards. Try breaking with the kick. Ideal technique comes out horizontally but slightly downwards is ok. Upwards and you will struggle to break the boards.

I would also say that a higher chamber is better for sparring. A lower chamber and a kick that travels up is easier to jam and come over the top of. Higher chambers are much harder to tackle as it's more difficult to stop the knee.


That's because of the height. A mid section kick from me usually travels vertically. Why would the directon of the force make a difference on breaking? I am sceptical about the physics claim
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singularity6
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Joined: 26 Jun 2017
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Styles: Jidokwan Taekwondo and Hapkido, Yoshokai Aikido, ZNIR Iaido, Kendo

PostPosted: Fri Feb 02, 2018 7:18 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'd say your kick looks snappy, but strange. There seems to be a lot going on mechanically that makes me think you're overcompensating to get the speed, snap and height. You're leaning back quite a bit for how low the knee is coming up. I'd be curious to see how effective the kick is outside of sparring (can you go through 2 or 3 boards with it?) Do you lose balance when you hit a target with resistance?

The further you lift your knee, the more muscles you engage, hence more power.

Power is generated from strength and technique - not flexibility.

I struggled (and still do, arguably) with both flexibility and weak hips. I've found these exercises (and similar) to be quite helpful to improve my kicks:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8ZzAEfRlB_s
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Prototype
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Joined: 15 Dec 2016
Posts: 367


PostPosted: Fri Feb 02, 2018 7:45 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

singularity6 wrote:
I'd say your kick looks snappy, but strange. There seems to be a lot going on mechanically that makes me think you're overcompensating to get the speed, snap and height. You're leaning back quite a bit for how low the knee is coming up. I'd be curious to see how effective the kick is outside of sparring (can you go through 2 or 3 boards with it?) Do you lose balance when you hit a target with resistance?

The further you lift your knee, the more muscles you engage, hence more power.

Power is generated from strength and technique - not flexibility.

I struggled (and still do, arguably) with both flexibility and weak hips. I've found these exercises (and similar) to be quite helpful to improve my kicks:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8ZzAEfRlB_s


I can actually do a power version of this kick, but it's even less conventional. It involves me pushing of the kicking foot like a donkey kick at point of impact. But I would never do that as a formal kick.

I don't know how it works in breaking. I would never kick that height.
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MatsuShinshii
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Joined: 15 Aug 2016
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Location: Kentucky
Styles: Machimura Suidi Rokudan, Ryukyu Kenpo, Kobudo, Judo

PostPosted: Fri Feb 02, 2018 4:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm not a Korean Martial artist but the one thing I noticed was you loose sight of your target. Your leg extends and you are turning your head away so that you can no longer see what you are kicking at.

Just 2 cents.
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