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el-peligroso
Yellow Belt
Yellow Belt

Joined: 16 Oct 2016
Posts: 34
Location: YYZ
Styles: Brazilian Jiu-jitsu, Jujutsu, Kickboxing, Muay Thai

PostPosted: Tue Oct 18, 2016 5:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

My BJJ school is pretty laid back.

We call our instructor by his first name. We don't have to bow on to the mat (although I do out of habit from the Japanese Jiu-jitsu days).

Before we roll, we just do a high-five followed by a fist bump.

After class we line up, bow out and then shake every ones hand.

It's laid back and I prefer it that way. After all, I am paying a membership fee there.
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LLLEARNER
Brown Belt
Brown Belt

Joined: 10 Feb 2016
Posts: 687
Location: Central Maine

PostPosted: Thu Oct 20, 2016 11:33 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

el-peligroso wrote:
My BJJ school is pretty laid back.

We call our instructor by his first name. We don't have to bow on to the mat (although I do out of habit from the Japanese Jiu-jitsu days).

Before we roll, we just do a high-five followed by a fist bump.

After class we line up, bow out and then shake every ones hand.

It's laid back and I prefer it that way. After all, I am paying a membership fee there.


I noticed the same thing when I tried the Renzo Gracie Academy on a mini-vacation. For warm-ups the Sensei would count to 5 and the class finished to 10, they also did the fist-bump high fives and handshake at the end. I am not familiar with other schools, so I don't have anything to compare it to.
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sensei8
KF Sensei
KF Sensei

Joined: 23 Feb 2008
Posts: 14401
Location: Houston, TX
Styles: Shindokan Saitou-ryu [Shuri-te/Okinawa-te based]

PostPosted: Thu Oct 20, 2016 1:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Under our Soke and Dai-Soke, our Hombu, from top to the bottom, and especially on the floor, was very diplomatic as well as formal. The usual attitudes and acceptance towards the Hombu's rules and the like was without any ambiguity. Any deviation away from both the formal as well as the diplomatic wasn't tolerated the even slightest. And God help you if you violated the sanctity of the floor.

To appreciate and understand this, one would first have to know them both, and there's no reason to seek their forgiveness in any capacity because they both were from Okinawa...born, raised, and trained in Okinawa. And no, not all Okinawan Masters of Karate-do act the same, or expect the same as other Okinawan Masters...at least as far as Soke and Dai-Soke are concerned.

After their passing, the Hombu slowly became less formal and diplomatic, even on the floor. However, any and all formal events, like our Annual Testing Cycle, still remain as formal and diplomatic as ever!! I could list a before and after Hombu rules and the like. but I'll try to refrain from listing them all.

That's at the Hombu!

At my own dojo...well...

I'm far less diplomatic and formal across the board, and this is my choice and mine alone. After all, the Kyuodan Dojo was mine to do as I wanted without any approval from the Hombu or Soke or Dai-Soke, nor did I ever seek it out. Why would I want to do that? I never interfered with their Hombu, and I don't want them to try to assume a position within my dojo that they didn't possess!!

Nonetheless, whenever either of them visited my dojo, any of us that had trained under either of them for any period of time, would, out of habit, be diplomatic and formal, especially on the floor. I can say that that was more like respect to them for whatever reason(s).

I prefer to be addressed at my own dojo simply as Bob!! I mean that is my informal name of Robert!! So why wouldn't I?!?! However, any formal events held at my dojo was under the strict compliance of diplomacy and formality to the nth degree. Not all habits are easily broken, nor did I want to break them; a choice of mine!!

I'm not from Okinawa, I'm from the USA!! Our two cultures are different, and I don't like being told how I'm suppose to act in my own dojo. I had a hard enough time accepting the way and means of the Hombu at first because of my Christian upbringing. Albeit, I did succumb to the Hombu rules and the like because it was their house and not mine. Besides, I was under two absolutely fantastic Sensei's, and I was willing to forgo the implications that come with being a Christian. Again, it was my choice!!




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DWx
KF Sensei
KF Sensei

Joined: 17 Jan 2007
Posts: 6148
Location: UK
Styles: Tae Kwon Do & Yang family Tai Chi

PostPosted: Thu Oct 20, 2016 3:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Does anyone's dojo or style have rules for etiquette outside of the training hall?

For instance in times when you may be in the presence of seniors or training partners but not necessarily physically training: e.g. meals together, formal meetings or times when you stay in a hotel together.

I forget this stuff as it seems normal to me now, but for example at meals we tend to follow Asian or Korean table etiquette:

- stand when a senior (grade or age) approaches the table
- senior sits in the center then next most senior to the right, the next to the left and so on
- keep your hosts and senior's glass filled
- don't eat or help yourself until your senior is ready
- wait until everyone has finished before excusing yourself
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The Pred
Member of the Month
Member of the Month

Joined: 26 Jun 2003
Posts: 331

Styles: Goju Ryu

PostPosted: Thu Oct 20, 2016 5:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

DWx wrote:
Does anyone's dojo or style have rules for etiquette outside of the training hall?

For instance in times when you may be in the presence of seniors or training partners but not necessarily physically training: e.g. meals together, formal meetings or times when you stay in a hotel together.

I forget this stuff as it seems normal to me now, but for example at meals we tend to follow Asian or Korean table etiquette:

- stand when a senior (grade or age) approaches the table
- senior sits in the center then next most senior to the right, the next to the left and so on
- keep your hosts and senior's glass filled
- don't eat or help yourself until your senior is ready
- wait until everyone has finished before excusing yourself


Nope, outside of the dojo pretty relaxed. Made some great friends from people whom I teach with.
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sensei8
KF Sensei
KF Sensei

Joined: 23 Feb 2008
Posts: 14401
Location: Houston, TX
Styles: Shindokan Saitou-ryu [Shuri-te/Okinawa-te based]

PostPosted: Fri Oct 21, 2016 2:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

DWx wrote:
Does anyone's dojo or style have rules for etiquette outside of the training hall?

For instance in times when you may be in the presence of seniors or training partners but not necessarily physically training: e.g. meals together, formal meetings or times when you stay in a hotel together.

I forget this stuff as it seems normal to me now, but for example at meals we tend to follow Asian or Korean table etiquette:

- stand when a senior (grade or age) approaches the table
- senior sits in the center then next most senior to the right, the next to the left and so on
- keep your hosts and senior's glass filled
- don't eat or help yourself until your senior is ready
- wait until everyone has finished before excusing yourself

Nope; me neither...or at least here in the USA.

However, whenever we traveled to Okinawa with either or both of Soke and/or Dai-Soke, we did exactly that which you've posted; there's no excuse for lacking in etiquette in Okinawa. To do so, would mean that that student is in a lot of trouble from Soke/Dai-Soke...not a favorable position to be in, for sure!!



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el-peligroso
Yellow Belt
Yellow Belt

Joined: 16 Oct 2016
Posts: 34
Location: YYZ
Styles: Brazilian Jiu-jitsu, Jujutsu, Kickboxing, Muay Thai

PostPosted: Fri Oct 21, 2016 6:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

My girlfriend who just moved to a different city had to find a new place to train and she told me that it's a lot different than where I train at which happens to be where she started.

The new place she is at is a bit strict. The head instructor is a 3rd degree black belt in BJJ, 4th degree black belt in karate, Kru in Muay Thai and a black belt in Judo. He runs his place very much like a karate dojo. Lots of bowing, no drinking water during class, you can only wear white gi's and he doesn't let males and females grapple together.
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JR 137
KF Sempai
KF Sempai

Joined: 10 May 2015
Posts: 2373
Location: In the dojo
Styles: Seido Juku

PostPosted: Sat Oct 22, 2016 1:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

DWx wrote:
Does anyone's dojo or style have rules for etiquette outside of the training hall?

For instance in times when you may be in the presence of seniors or training partners but not necessarily physically training: e.g. meals together, formal meetings or times when you stay in a hotel together.

I forget this stuff as it seems normal to me now, but for example at meals we tend to follow Asian or Korean table etiquette:

- stand when a senior (grade or age) approaches the table
- senior sits in the center then next most senior to the right, the next to the left and so on
- keep your hosts and senior's glass filled
- don't eat or help yourself until your senior is ready
- wait until everyone has finished before excusing yourself


While my dojo doesn't follow these rules when we're outside the dojo (or even inside during "social events"), these are things I've seen in Japanese friends of mine. It's what I've observed when they're around family or in a professional setting, so to speak.

Growing up in a traditional Armenian family on one side, and an Italian family on the other, this is more or less the way I was raised. Substitute head of the table for center of the table, and eliminate the standing up when someone comes to the table, and keeping their glass full, and you've got how we did (and more or less still do) things. We don't start eating until everyone's been served, you don't generally leave the table until everyone's done, etc. Most of my non-ethnic friends' families did and do the same.

Everyone has different customs. I think it's not something that should be forced onto people through the MA though. I think it's kind of odd when demanded by an MA group.
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DWx
KF Sensei
KF Sensei

Joined: 17 Jan 2007
Posts: 6148
Location: UK
Styles: Tae Kwon Do & Yang family Tai Chi

PostPosted: Sun Oct 23, 2016 12:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

JR 137 wrote:

While my dojo doesn't follow these rules when we're outside the dojo (or even inside during "social events"), these are things I've seen in Japanese friends of mine. It's what I've observed when they're around family or in a professional setting, so to speak.

Growing up in a traditional Armenian family on one side, and an Italian family on the other, this is more or less the way I was raised. Substitute head of the table for center of the table, and eliminate the standing up when someone comes to the table, and keeping their glass full, and you've got how we did (and more or less still do) things. We don't start eating until everyone's been served, you don't generally leave the table until everyone's done, etc. Most of my non-ethnic friends' families did and do the same.

Everyone has different customs. I think it's not something that should be forced onto people through the MA though. I think it's kind of odd when demanded by an MA group.

I do think this stuff is kind of nice and seems to be forgotten by a lot of people nowadays. I wonder how many people nowadays actually eat regularly with the family or extended family at a table and not just infront of the tv or their phones?

As to being forced to do this, I don't think of it as a bad thing necessarily. To me it's no different than asking a student to bow in class. It's part of the whole package and if they don't want to do it, then maybe it's not the right martial art for them.

We only do it in a formal setting and actually it's quite nice to see everyone show a bit of respect for their elders in this way, especially the kids.
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DauntlessDruid
White Belt
White Belt

Joined: 10 Jul 2018
Posts: 7

Styles: Isshinryu

PostPosted: Wed Jul 11, 2018 11:29 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think my Dojo is on the fairly traditional end of the spectrum. We bow on and off the floor. We bow to the instructor at the beginning and end of class. And we bow to our partners when we begin and end working with them. My instructor is fond of saying that karate begins and ends with respect.

We also are probably slightly odd in that we refer to everyone as Mr. or Ms. while on the floor. Even kids are called Mr. X or Ms. Y. Even our head instructor is simply Mr. B. Honestly prior to helping out with classes and taking attendance there were plenty of people's who's the first name I didn't even know.

There are other more subtle things. If you aren't a black belt, you shouldn't wear anything black on the floor during class (within reason, if you have to wear a black knee brace wear it). After special events, there's often parties and the head instructors are always served first. If it's in a restaurant there are always seats saved for them, usually at the center or center table and they are again served first. Even after a regular class (the last one of the evening at any rate), we have kampai where there's a toast and we share a drink. No one is allowed to open or pour their own first drink.

I quite like how my Dojo handles these sort of things. I don't find it stuffy or overly formal, but it is nice to show respect for others, especially when it's often lacking in the real world. Though if I'm completely honest, I'm still not overly thrilled by being called Ms.Druid sometimes. Gives me flashbacks to my middle school gym teacher who insisted on calling me that.
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