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sensei8
KF Sensei
KF Sensei

Joined: 23 Feb 2008
Posts: 14406
Location: Houston, TX
Styles: Shindokan Saitou-ryu [Shuri-te/Okinawa-te based]

PostPosted: Thu Jul 25, 2019 8:44 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Alan Armstrong wrote:
Am I missing the point but isn't martial arts an integral part of self defence?

From the first class to the last class and every thing in between is about self defence in one aspect or another?

Packaging and selling a one day self defence class directed at recruiting new students is a marketing strategy; which to my mind has an ulterior motive, tricking by trying and trapping.

Perhaps being absolutely fair to new student's and giving a good self defence course that involves 48 hours of hands on experience is more worthwhile, that involves a wider perspective than, the one on one techniques, that realistically takes time to master.

By doing so, not only gaining the respect of new recruits but also being realistic and real up front from the beginning.

However holding "the first class is free self defence class" is fair enough as they will be your walking talking advertising ambassadors, to their friends, family and work colleagues if satisfied.

I think that you're missing my point.

My point is my being dead set against ever teaching a ONE DAY self-defense class; with never returning for continued focused targeted regular classes ever again!!

I've taught those ONE DAY self-defense classes in the past, usually held on a Saturday afternoon with its participants primarily being females. My mind was changed when my Dai-Soke firmly asked me...

"What are you doing teaching ONE DAY Shindokan classes; Shindokan can't be learnt in ONE DAY!!"

After I explained to him my reasons, which fell on deaf ears, he just repeated himself with more emphasis on that Shindokan can't be learned in ONE DAY. After I thought over what he said, I never conducted another ONE DAY self-defense class ever again.



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Alan Armstrong
Black Belt
Black Belt

Joined: 28 Feb 2016
Posts: 2206


PostPosted: Sun Jul 28, 2019 11:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

sensei8 wrote:
Alan Armstrong wrote:
Am I missing the point but isn't martial arts an integral part of self defence?

From the first class to the last class and every thing in between is about self defence in one aspect or another?

Packaging and selling a one day self defence class directed at recruiting new students is a marketing strategy; which to my mind has an ulterior motive, tricking by trying and trapping.

Perhaps being absolutely fair to new student's and giving a good self defence course that involves 48 hours of hands on experience is more worthwhile, that involves a wider perspective than, the one on one techniques, that realistically takes time to master.

By doing so, not only gaining the respect of new recruits but also being realistic and real up front from the beginning.

However holding "the first class is free self defence class" is fair enough as they will be your walking talking advertising ambassadors, to their friends, family and work colleagues if satisfied.

I think that you're missing my point.

My point is my being dead set against ever teaching a ONE DAY self-defense class; with never returning for continued focused targeted regular classes ever again!!

I've taught those ONE DAY self-defense classes in the past, usually held on a Saturday afternoon with its participants primarily being females. My mind was changed when my Dai-Soke firmly asked me...

"What are you doing teaching ONE DAY Shindokan classes; Shindokan can't be learnt in ONE DAY!!"

After I explained to him my reasons, which fell on deaf ears, he just repeated himself with more emphasis on that Shindokan can't be learned in ONE DAY. After I thought over what he said, I never conducted another ONE DAY self-defense class ever again.


Nothing much can be taught in a day to much proficiency, however everything starts from a first day at school even for Dai-Soke.
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sensei8
KF Sensei
KF Sensei

Joined: 23 Feb 2008
Posts: 14406
Location: Houston, TX
Styles: Shindokan Saitou-ryu [Shuri-te/Okinawa-te based]

PostPosted: Sun Jul 28, 2019 4:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Alan Armstrong wrote:
sensei8 wrote:
Alan Armstrong wrote:
Am I missing the point but isn't martial arts an integral part of self defence?

From the first class to the last class and every thing in between is about self defence in one aspect or another?

Packaging and selling a one day self defence class directed at recruiting new students is a marketing strategy; which to my mind has an ulterior motive, tricking by trying and trapping.

Perhaps being absolutely fair to new student's and giving a good self defence course that involves 48 hours of hands on experience is more worthwhile, that involves a wider perspective than, the one on one techniques, that realistically takes time to master.

By doing so, not only gaining the respect of new recruits but also being realistic and real up front from the beginning.

However holding "the first class is free self defence class" is fair enough as they will be your walking talking advertising ambassadors, to their friends, family and work colleagues if satisfied.

I think that you're missing my point.

My point is my being dead set against ever teaching a ONE DAY self-defense class; with never returning for continued focused targeted regular classes ever again!!

I've taught those ONE DAY self-defense classes in the past, usually held on a Saturday afternoon with its participants primarily being females. My mind was changed when my Dai-Soke firmly asked me...

"What are you doing teaching ONE DAY Shindokan classes; Shindokan can't be learnt in ONE DAY!!"

After I explained to him my reasons, which fell on deaf ears, he just repeated himself with more emphasis on that Shindokan can't be learned in ONE DAY. After I thought over what he said, I never conducted another ONE DAY self-defense class ever again.


Nothing much can be taught in a day to much proficiency, however everything starts from a first day at school even for Dai-Soke.

Right, but Dai-Soke didn't ever attend a ONE DAY self-defense class, to never return to the floor ever again, like many ONE DAY self-defense class participants still do!! Instead he took his very first class in Shindokan...he stayed on the floor for many, many fruitful decades to come!!



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sensei8
KF Sensei
KF Sensei

Joined: 23 Feb 2008
Posts: 14406
Location: Houston, TX
Styles: Shindokan Saitou-ryu [Shuri-te/Okinawa-te based]

PostPosted: Sun Aug 25, 2019 9:02 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well, I think that my harshness is limiting possible potentials that are not mine...they are of that individual who wants to attend and learn as much as they can from a one day self-defense.

Who am I to deny that individual to learn something, even if it's just one thing. If an individual attends a one day self-defense class and learns only one thing, then that one day self-defense class has tremendous value. A tangible value that money can't buy; it's the knowledge and experience, no matter how brief the exposure might be.

So, after a meeting of the minds with all of my instructors, my dojo will conduct self-defense classes for its very first time, and on a regular basis. Hopefully Soke and Dai-Soke aren't turning in their graves...to much!!

I now see the value of adding self-defense classes to our Seminar calendar. Not just for the potential financial benefit afforded to the dojo, but for the value of that one student who wants a one day self-defense class. Everyone here knows just how much of a proponent and advocate I am for my Student Body; Student Body first, dojo second, me third/last.



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Alan Armstrong
Black Belt
Black Belt

Joined: 28 Feb 2016
Posts: 2206


PostPosted: Sun Aug 25, 2019 4:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

sensei8 wrote:
Well, I think that my harshness is limiting possible potentials that are not mine...they are of that individual who wants to attend and learn as much as they can from a one day self-defense.

Who am I to deny that individual to learn something, even if it's just one thing. If an individual attends a one day self-defense class and learns only one thing, then that one day self-defense class has tremendous value. A tangible value that money can't buy; it's the knowledge and experience, no matter how brief the exposure might be.

So, after a meeting of the minds with all of my instructors, my dojo will conduct self-defense classes for its very first time, and on a regular basis. Hopefully Soke and Dai-Soke aren't turning in their graves...to much!!

I now see the value of adding self-defense classes to our Seminar calendar. Not just for the potential financial benefit afforded to the dojo, but for the value of that one student who wants a one day self-defense class. Everyone here knows just how much of a proponent and advocate I am for my Student Body; Student Body first, dojo second, me third/last.


In 1975 I sat in on my fist karate class.

Already having some judo and boxing experience.

The Sensei showed a technique of rushing in against the opponent with a finger tips up forward palm to the opponent's face obscuring the vision with the left hand, then quickly followed up by using a rear hand reverse punch to the face with the right hand.

Having never forgotten what had learned that day, ever.

Happened to join another karate club soon after, with in three months experience, the second Sensei putting me in a full contact match.

Forgetting everything learned, using the palm to the opponent's face, followed with a reverse punch worked perfectly was the first thing that came to mind in the bout; I knocked the opponent out in the first few seconds.

This hooked me on realizing karate works and carried on from there.

If never sat in on that first class from another school, perhaps things wouldn't have turned out the way they did.

The technique palm and punch could have well as been a self defence class instead or a bout with another maist.

That one techniques changed my view point forevermore.

Point being able to defend against someone wanting to hurt me and being able to physically do something about brilliantly was something very new for me.

It was very empowering and gave me a confidence that was none existent in my past, due to being mostly getting beaten up.

Now knowing I can fight back confidently was something I was never ever going to give up on for the rest of my life.

A first class impression that lasted a lifetime.

How can I deny this concept to someone who also really needs to know how?

Might save some one's life depending on the circumstances.

Yes, it is not possible to learn an entire martial art system in a day, but perhaps one good techniques done well might change the odds from losing a confrontation to winning one.

IMHO
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Spartacus Maximus
Black Belt
Black Belt

Joined: 01 Jun 2014
Posts: 1723

Styles: Shorin ryu

PostPosted: Mon Aug 26, 2019 7:22 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Besides perhaps stimulating interest in pursuing training, one day seminars or courses have no practical value. Those who attend will likely get a false sense of security after being introduced to a few techniques. However, as with any given skill it is just not possible to become proficient enough to rely on them without practise. After the one day course ends, how many of the people attending actually spend any significant time on the content afterwards?
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sensei8
KF Sensei
KF Sensei

Joined: 23 Feb 2008
Posts: 14406
Location: Houston, TX
Styles: Shindokan Saitou-ryu [Shuri-te/Okinawa-te based]

PostPosted: Mon Aug 26, 2019 3:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

My wearing blinders towards one day self-defense classes all of these years has stifled my Student Body's chance of fruitful and effective expectations through their own MA betterment. Some say, better late than never, yet, I'm not sure if that's overly fair to my Student Body, whereas, better late...is still late, nonetheless.

Thus far, things are looking up.



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bushido_man96
KF Sensei
KF Sensei

Joined: 31 Mar 2006
Posts: 27760
Location: Hays, KS
Styles: Taekwondo, Combat Hapkido, Aikido, GRACIE

PostPosted: Tue Aug 27, 2019 10:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Spartacus Maximus wrote:
Besides perhaps stimulating interest in pursuing training, one day seminars or courses have no practical value. Those who attend will likely get a false sense of security after being introduced to a few techniques. However, as with any given skill it is just not possible to become proficient enough to rely on them without practise. After the one day course ends, how many of the people attending actually spend any significant time on the content afterwards?


Most don't. But, I do think that it can be worthwhile in putting yourself out there to find perhaps a few new students that will come in and put in the work.

I do think there are those who do gain some value from these types of seminars, and who knows if you might end up teaching someone one thing they remember that saves their life or changes the course of things for them just enough to make a difference.

To me, it isn't about the money. Every one that I've been a part of has been offered for free. It's about teaching awareness and simple, effective responses to common attacks or situations. And then stressing how important it is to continue to train...
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sensei8
KF Sensei
KF Sensei

Joined: 23 Feb 2008
Posts: 14406
Location: Houston, TX
Styles: Shindokan Saitou-ryu [Shuri-te/Okinawa-te based]

PostPosted: Tue Aug 27, 2019 12:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Even why I'm trying to sincerely support the one day self-defense class, and things seem to me acceptable across the board, it still seems and feels wrong to me. But I'm keeping an open mind!!



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Alan Armstrong
Black Belt
Black Belt

Joined: 28 Feb 2016
Posts: 2206


PostPosted: Tue Aug 27, 2019 2:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

sensei8 wrote:
Even why I'm trying to sincerely support the one day self-defense class, and things seem to me acceptable across the board, it still seems and feels wrong to me. But I'm keeping an open mind!!


Perhaps it would look more obvious if watching adults ice skating for the first time, chaotic looking to say the least.

None maists attempting Sparring for the first time, is gonna look more like a Brawling than anything else, like every thing else, just takes time to develop some basic skills.
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