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BoothJ9
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Joined: 15 Feb 2022
Posts: 23
Location: Wales
Styles: Shukokai

PostPosted: Thu Apr 28, 2022 3:52 am    Post subject: Improvised Weapons Reply with quote

Not sure if this is the right section for this thread, it kind of relates to martial arts weapons.

Really simple question: What are some everyday items that can be used as improvised weapons that we don't usually think of?

I can easily think of keys between the knuckles, belt, anything in the hand to increase the mass, a pocket torch and the likes. What else do people often have with them that can make a good improvised weapon for defence?
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Wastelander
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Styles: Shorin-Ryu, Shuri-Ryu, Judo, KishimotoDi

PostPosted: Fri Apr 29, 2022 8:26 am    Post subject: Re: Improvised Weapons Reply with quote

BoothJ9 wrote:
Not sure if this is the right section for this thread, it kind of relates to martial arts weapons.

Really simple question: What are some everyday items that can be used as improvised weapons that we don't usually think of?

I can easily think of keys between the knuckles, belt, anything in the hand to increase the mass, a pocket torch and the likes. What else do people often have with them that can make a good improvised weapon for defence?


I feel it is necessary for me to jump in, here, and say that putting keys between your fingers as a self-defense weapon is a terrible idea, and should NOT be recommended to anyone. You will cut up your fingers quite badly if you try to hit something that way. You can pinch-grip a single large key, preferably with a bulky plastic section, and use that to dig into sensitive targets, but keys are generally just very bad for hitting.

Belts are decent for people trained with flexible weapons, but not great, overall, and definitely not something your average person should try to use--they'll hit themselves.

Fist loads aren't really all that beneficial--you're better off holding something that extends out of your hand, like the flashlight/torch you mentioned, or a metal pen, and using that to stab/hammerfist or hook with. This can also work with things like lipstick, mascara bottles, or vape pens. I'm fond of wooden or metal hair sticks for people with long hair for this, as well.

You can use the edges of a smartphone to hit somebody in a similar fashion, and they'll hold up decently well, but you do run the risk of breaking the thing you need to call for help.

You can also often find items around you to improvise with, depending on where you are. Restaurants have silverware, parks can have sticks and rocks, parking lots can have bottles, bricks, and rocks, homes have all manner of potentially dangerous items in them.
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crash
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Joined: 21 Jan 2003
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Styles: karate,

PostPosted: Fri Apr 29, 2022 5:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

gotta agree with wastelander, keys between teh knuckles is a bad idea. as is a belt and 99% of most other objects. a weapon has to be a weapon, not something that is just going to scratch or bruise, adrenaline in an altercation will negate the effects of most all "small" types of defense. and hitting the right spot that a small weapon would need to strike is almost impossible on a moving target...thats why youre taught to aim center mass with a firearm. improvised weapons should be in the club, staff, or pointy type categories, with a little heft to them. but the most important thing to always consider is the escalation of force laws. could you escape? could you first defend yourself without a weapon? did you fear for your own life or the life of others? etc... when a weapon is brought into play you will be grilled on every aspect of your defense.
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BoothJ9
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Joined: 15 Feb 2022
Posts: 23
Location: Wales
Styles: Shukokai

PostPosted: Sat Apr 30, 2022 1:14 am    Post subject: Re: Improvised Weapons Reply with quote

Wastelander wrote:
I feel it is necessary for me to jump in, here, and say that putting keys between your fingers as a self-defense weapon is a terrible idea, and should NOT be recommended to anyone. You will cut up your fingers quite badly if you try to hit something that way. You can pinch-grip a single large key, preferably with a bulky plastic section, and use that to dig into sensitive targets, but keys are generally just very bad for hitting.

Belts are decent for people trained with flexible weapons, but not great, overall, and definitely not something your average person should try to use--they'll hit themselves.

Fist loads aren't really all that beneficial--you're better off holding something that extends out of your hand, like the flashlight/torch you mentioned, or a metal pen, and using that to stab/hammerfist or hook with. This can also work with things like lipstick, mascara bottles, or vape pens. I'm fond of wooden or metal hair sticks for people with long hair for this, as well.

You can use the edges of a smartphone to hit somebody in a similar fashion, and they'll hold up decently well, but you do run the risk of breaking the thing you need to call for help.

You can also often find items around you to improvise with, depending on where you are. Restaurants have silverware, parks can have sticks and rocks, parking lots can have bottles, bricks, and rocks, homes have all manner of potentially dangerous items in them.


Thanks for the answer. Don't think I'd use a smartphone though, especially newer ones because like you say, I think with a newer one I'd do one strike and it would possibly break. I can also see how what's about heavily depends on the environment. Just got to keep your eyes open to the options sort of thing.
Thanks again for the reply
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BoothJ9
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Joined: 15 Feb 2022
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Location: Wales
Styles: Shukokai

PostPosted: Sat Apr 30, 2022 1:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

crash wrote:
gotta agree with wastelander, keys between teh knuckles is a bad idea. as is a belt and 99% of most other objects. a weapon has to be a weapon, not something that is just going to scratch or bruise, adrenaline in an altercation will negate the effects of most all "small" types of defense. and hitting the right spot that a small weapon would need to strike is almost impossible on a moving target...thats why youre taught to aim center mass with a firearm. improvised weapons should be in the club, staff, or pointy type categories, with a little heft to them. but the most important thing to always consider is the escalation of force laws. could you escape? could you first defend yourself without a weapon? did you fear for your own life or the life of others? etc... when a weapon is brought into play you will be grilled on every aspect of your defense.

Thanks for the reply. I understand the concept of probability of hitting a specific spot where you want to with something small is extraordinarily low vs hitting the general body (any further references to firearms will probably go over my head, I've never shot a gun before in my life, I'm in the UK which also has many many many more weapon laws). I should also have said that this is very much hypothetical, just wanted to see if other people see things that I don't. I practise martial arts hoping that I'll never have to use it to save my own or others' life. It's also UK weapon laws that got me thinking about it because walking around with any kind of typical weapon can very easily lead to trouble. Then I remembered hearing somewhere isn't one of the ideas behind using kobudo weapons modern day isn't to learn to defend with those weapons but to adapt the techniques and concepts to be able to use almost anything around you in the same fashion as a traditional kobudo weapon?
Thanks for the reply
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Miick 11
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 30, 2022 5:33 pm    Post subject: Re: Improvised Weapons Reply with quote

BoothJ9 wrote:
Not sure if this is the right section for this thread, it kind of relates to martial arts weapons.

Really simple question: What are some everyday items that can be used as improvised weapons that we don't usually think of?

I can easily think of keys between the knuckles, belt, anything in the hand to increase the mass, a pocket torch and the likes. What else do people often have with them that can make a good improvised weapon for defence?


All things or any things AT HAND .

I got a new student that want's to learn staff . He is very accomplished Ju-jitsu / kick boxer but is unfamiliar with weapons . We also did a bit of knife and machete stuff the other day . he commented about what damage a simple small knife can do .

I had to interrupt - " Don't mistake any of this for self defense against a REAL knife situation , this is just a training aid . However I have done self defense class against a REAL situation, and then explained it . It was in a school gym set up as a dojo for the night . Various people did stuff . I gave a tanto (wooden) to a 'slippery' guy and invited him to attack me , he advanced and I was out the big open back doors in a flash and gone . people seemed confused when I came back in the side door . Again : this time he positioned himself between me and doors and advanced , I backed up and found myself amongst some chairs that had been pushed aside , we played cat and mouse there for a while but he " I will catch you eventually ." Me; " Do you want me to start throwing chairs at you .... or just advance on you using the chair as a weapon ?" He responded " I will grab a chair too ! " Me ; " What are you going to do with that 'sharp' big knike in your hand while you are trying to weild a chair " ?

So we started again , this time he is blocking my exist to the doors and the chairs , so I back up , with no ther plan than to get away from that knife .... my back hits the wall and ..... the weapons rack ! So I reach behind me and grab a boken ."

" And here " I hand my new friend a wooden tanto " In your home dojo there is that " he had bought a vacuum cleaner in previously to go over the mats before we started , " I could flay that around at you with the hose, the Vac would probably break off but I think that hose would give you , or your lead arm a flogging ..... there are your weapons scattered about as well , the garbage bin ... anything .

And yes, there is the aspect people mentioned re the keys , but this applies to a lot of stuff , you dont know the subtleties of tonfa , you are libel to get hurt using them , nunchuku are a classic ! someone pulls them on you , stand back and watch them knock themselves out ( I am talking about silly street punks types here ) .

I have noticed that some who seem proficient with a weapon have little idea about practical use ,,, particularly in the area of 'rebound' .

If you have not experienced that try seriously whacking your nunchuks into a makiwara or similar .... maybe start iff with plastic pair .
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bushido_man96
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PostPosted: Sun May 01, 2022 9:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

A walking cane comes to mind.
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BoothJ9
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Joined: 15 Feb 2022
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Location: Wales
Styles: Shukokai

PostPosted: Mon May 02, 2022 5:54 am    Post subject: Re: Improvised Weapons Reply with quote

Miick 11 wrote:
And yes, there is the aspect people mentioned re the keys , but this applies to a lot of stuff , you dont know the subtleties of tonfa , you are libel to get hurt using them , nunchuku are a classic ! someone pulls them on you , stand back and watch them knock themselves out ( I am talking about silly street punks types here ) .

I have noticed that some who seem proficient with a weapon have little idea about practical use ,,, particularly in the area of 'rebound' .

If you have not experienced that try seriously whacking your nunchuks into a makiwara or similar .... maybe start iff with plastic pair .


Yes indeed, physics can be your best friend and your worst enemy, good old Newton's 3rd law. That's partially why I find the question so interesting because there are countless things to use but is it a good idea to? Is it going to help you or leave you in a worse situation than you would have been anyway?
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BoothJ9
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Joined: 15 Feb 2022
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Styles: Shukokai

PostPosted: Mon May 02, 2022 5:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

bushido_man96 wrote:
A walking cane comes to mind.

A wooden one with some weight to it could certainly cause some damage.
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DWx
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PostPosted: Mon May 02, 2022 8:49 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I've always wondered with the belt... How are you going to get it off fast enough? And I feel like then my trousers would fall down making it even harder to run away
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