Interesting, another Cop story..

shortstick · Yellow Belt

Hey guys, un the US. there is no law that requires you to warn your target that you are a karte dude, or dudet...as far as the shooting of the guy in a kung fu stance... the officer would have to go through a shooting review to go over the fine details of the case. From there, it would be determined if it was a justified shooting. Without all the facts, it is hard to comment further....but could it happen?...you bet.
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ZR440 · Black Belt

MonkeyGirl said the keyword... reasonable force.
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WolverineGuy · Red Belt

Hello all, this is my first post!

As far as legalities, the law simply says that you can use reasonable force to defend yourself. To the best of my knowledge, there is nothing written about special training ANYWHERE. This came from my lawyer, and I'd like to think he knows what he's talking about.

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Red J · Black Belt

BKJ1216 · Black Belt

False. Any authority figure shoudl know that if you say something like "I know karate" then that's just going to aggrivate the assaliant further to attack you.
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wrestlingkaratechamp · Brown Belt

This is interesting. But I have heard that if someone attacks you and you know martial Arts and you hurt or kill them then you could be put in jail. They say if you know martial arts then "You know when to stop" so if you kill someone then you have less rights then someone who doesn't know martial arts....is that true?

Maestro · Green Belt

Technically that is not true, like wolverine said, there is no special clause for MA training--you never have "less rights," but you must remember that any criminal trial wil involve a jury, which consists of human beings who, intentional or not, will allow their feelings--conscious or unconscious--to enter the courtroom. Jurors may be inclined to think that force was unreasonable in the hands of a martial artist. But this doesn't just apply to martial artists. If someone who doesn't know MA's injures or kills someone in self defense they could be prosecuted as well. The difference is that a jury is likely to be more critical of someone who knows martial arts. The line of "reasonable force" becomes blurry, because a juror or judge might assume that a martial artist is more capable of deciding what is reasonable and necessary in a given situation, and that an untrained defender is not.

I don't know what the laws are around me about having to tell someone that you know MA's, but I would agree with BKJ1216, that's just ludicrous. It will most likely just aggrevate the situation, and besides, do you always have time to say "hey, hold up a minute, do you realize that I know MA's, and that by attacking me, you are possibly committing suicide? Please sign at the dotted line and submit this to my lawyer if you accept said conditions. You may now procede to attack me." By that logic you could never use MA's on someone who attacks you without warning. Ludicrous.
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BKJ1216 · Black Belt

It's considered martial arts as long as you do not use deadly force. Or in other words if you go beyond the point of neutralizing the assailant it's considered unecessarry force.
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Martial_Artist · Pre-Black Belt

As far as the police officer shooting the assailant. There is a 21ft rule among law enforcement. Basically what that is is that if a suspect is 21feet or closer it will take that person less time to close the distance and attack the officer than it will for the officer to draw his weapon and defend. So, if a suspect is more than 21ft away, say 25, and begins to approach the officer (in a kung fu stance) if that suspect crosses the 21ft line and makes an aggressive movement toward the officer. The officer is more than likely justified in shooting that suspect. Above all things officer safety is paramount. This is why when they pull you over for traffic violations they can handcuff you and confiscate your weapon for the duration of the stop. Officer safety takes precedent. You're not under arrest, they are just taking precautions for their safety.

So, in theory, the story told could very well have happened. They police enter a house on a CFS(call for service) they are not let in, obviously because the man is on the floor meditating, and when they do a strange man leaps to his feet and assumes a combat position. The officer, perhaps rookie, took the officer safety initiative and fired. If it later was revealed that the victim was a martial artist then more than likely they officer would have been expunged of any fault.

Police Officers have a difficult job. So many people are out to hurt them. They have to take special precautions just to survive. Many people don't understand that and in many circumstances get themselves shot or injured in an altercation. 100% compliance is the safest thing to do when dealing with an officer. Getting upset or making quick movements is not. Be calm, move slowly--in fact tell the officer when and if you move, and do exactly what he says. And NEVER, NEVER LIE about anything. That's the easiest way to bring yourself unnecessary grief, especially if you're innocent. Don't try to cover anything up. Because if it is revealed that you lied to an officer about anything that is obstruction and that is an arrestable offense. You will probably spend the night in jail, even if you just made a little lie, especially in a traffic stop. Real name, hide nothing. The most common thing are suspects being pulled over for minor violations who have a knife or gun in the car, but are afraid of telling the officer, and lie that they do. The officer can search the vehicle and if he finds it. You're going to jail. You may never get convicted, but you're going to have go through that. Even if it's legal possession of that weapon. The bottom line is: dishonesty with an officer.

Police Officers generally will let honest, helpful people off the hook with verbal warnings or minor citations (unless it is a serious offense). Those that lie, try to hide, or run get the full brunt of police wrath.

As for fighting. I would rather get arrested for fighting while wearing a "Peace on earth, good will towards men" t-shirt, than a martial arts related t-shirt. Prosecutors, if the case ever goes to trial, will use that against you. You are under no legal obligation, check your state to be sure, to declare your skill to an assailant. However, you should do so in front of witnesses. The only reason: so that those witnesses can say you tried everything possible to avoid the conflict, but the other guy brought it upon you. Remember if you want to tell the guy you're a martial artist do it loudly and clearly so those around can hear it. Then you have a good defense in court about being a nice reasonable guy who tried to end the fight.

Depending on the state there are clauses written into state statutes that govern physical force. (which is different from deadly physical force or physical force) It would be in your best interests to learn when the law allows for use of physical force in self defense. They are more lenient that most people suspect, but having a knowledge of them better prepares you to handle the legalities of a violent encounter.

MA
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omnifinite · Purple Belt

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