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SLK59
Yellow Belt
Yellow Belt

Joined: 05 Nov 2020
Posts: 94
Location: USA
Styles: Shotokan Karate

PostPosted: Fri May 21, 2021 12:10 pm    Post subject: Re: Is it ok with you to become a black belt through online. Reply with quote

Montana wrote:
Himokiri Karate wrote:

1. The no in me says that part of training is human interaction and sparring with different bodies. Also there is competition and seeing different people perform moves with different body types and bringing their own perspectives

IMHO, if you're training/learning totally online, without a partner to practice techniques on, you're wasting your time (and money). You learn the moves, but you're not getting the experiences of someone actually attacking you to see how the technique works.

Himokiri Karate wrote:
2. The yes in me says that if moves are being learned correctly and demonstrated flawlessly, then a person is a martial artist and that being a good fighter goes beyond sparring.

Without a qualified teacher to critique you, how do you know your doing techniques flawlessly? You may think you are, but ...


Himokiri Karate wrote:
I find myself flip flopping back and forth. I feel that as long as someone is going out there to seek sparring to make sure their online training is being used in pressure cooker situation, then online certification might not be too bad.


IMHO, if you're getting certification from some online course, it's only worth the paper it's printed on.

I had a guy come into my dojo years ago claiming he had an 8th Dan in karate. being ever the skeptical person I am I asked a few obvious questions, like "What system?" He didn't know. "Sensei's name?" He didn't know.

I said "How can you become an 8th dan and not know the name of the system or your sensei?" He said it was online and took him ALMOST a year to get the rank.

I asked him to show me a kata, he had no idea what that was. He did show me some stances and blocks, but they were very, very sad, slow and weak. His punch would have broken his wrist and hand, his kicks lacked any semblance of power or control, and he stood with straight legs.

I asked him why he was there and he told me he wanted to be an instructor at my school. (I'm trying really hard not to laugh through all this). I asked him if he knew any of our katas, of course he didn't. Asked him to show me blocks, not even close. Philosophy? Nope.

After about 45 minutes I sent him on his way with a little lesson on taking online course. I told him he's going to get himself killed if he started telling everybody he was an 8th dan black belt, because eventually somebody was going to challenge him and he was going to get a severe beating.

I did offer to let him into my class as long as he NEVER mentioned his 8th dan or online training again. He left and I never saw him again.



To me, it sounds as if you handled the situation with admirable patience and tact.
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Himokiri Karate
Blue Belt
Blue Belt

Joined: 13 Aug 2009
Posts: 310


PostPosted: Mon May 31, 2021 9:23 pm    Post subject: Re: Is it ok with you to become a black belt through online. Reply with quote

Montana wrote:
Himokiri Karate wrote:

1. The no in me says that part of training is human interaction and sparring with different bodies. Also there is competition and seeing different people perform moves with different body types and bringing their own perspectives

IMHO, if you're training/learning totally online, without a partner to practice techniques on, you're wasting your time (and money). You learn the moves, but you're not getting the experiences of someone actually attacking you to see how the technique works.

Himokiri Karate wrote:
2. The yes in me says that if moves are being learned correctly and demonstrated flawlessly, then a person is a martial artist and that being a good fighter goes beyond sparring.

Without a qualified teacher to critique you, how do you know your doing techniques flawlessly? You may think you are, but ...


Himokiri Karate wrote:
I find myself flip flopping back and forth. I feel that as long as someone is going out there to seek sparring to make sure their online training is being used in pressure cooker situation, then online certification might not be too bad.


IMHO, if you're getting certification from some online course, it's only worth the paper it's printed on.

I had a guy come into my dojo years ago claiming he had an 8th Dan in karate. being ever the skeptical person I am I asked a few obvious questions, like "What system?" He didn't know. "Sensei's name?" He didn't know.

I said "How can you become an 8th dan and not know the name of the system or your sensei?" He said it was online and took him ALMOST a year to get the rank.

I asked him to show me a kata, he had no idea what that was. He did show me some stances and blocks, but they were very, very sad, slow and weak. His punch would have broken his wrist and hand, his kicks lacked any semblance of power or control, and he stood with straight legs.

I asked him why he was there and he told me he wanted to be an instructor at my school. (I'm trying really hard not to laugh through all this). I asked him if he knew any of our katas, of course he didn't. Asked him to show me blocks, not even close. Philosophy? Nope.

After about 45 minutes I sent him on his way with a little lesson on taking online course. I told him he's going to get himself killed if he started telling everybody he was an 8th dan black belt, because eventually somebody was going to challenge him and he was going to get a severe beating.

I did offer to let him into my class as long as he NEVER mentioned his 8th dan or online training again. He left and I never saw him again.



UPDATE:

So I havent logged in for a while and now I have an update about this situation.

After doing some soul searching and a very fortunate opportunity, I found a Taekwondo school that are well known for their fighting ability and super inexpensive private lessons.

Currently I am doing the private lessons and the conditioning is beyond difficult. This was the right move. Some private sessions are about technique and other is about non stop cardio and volume kicking.

I now know for a fact that online program is WRONG!

Now my goal is to teach Karate but its going to have to be a mish mash of boxing, taekwondo and tang soo do that I know. My rank will come from Taekwondo/Hapkido and every move in Tang Soo Do can be found in Hapkido. Of course Tang Soo Do is Korean karate and that is the style I plan to represent as a teacher.
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Spartacus Maximus
Black Belt
Black Belt

Joined: 01 Jun 2014
Posts: 1871

Styles: Shorin ryu

PostPosted: Tue Jun 01, 2021 9:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Distance learning and online courses are possible for many different subjects. The martial arts, however are not all suited to remote lessons. Martial arts requires live, hands-on training under the close observation of a qualified instructors and on a regular basis. One should be able to train with an instructor and other students at least once a week in addition to individual practise outside of dojo hours.
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sensei8
KF Sensei
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Joined: 23 Feb 2008
Posts: 15453
Location: Houston, TX
Styles: Shindokan Saitou-ryu [Shuri-te/Okinawa-te based]

PostPosted: Wed Jun 02, 2021 5:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Any methods of learning should be entertained as to the many possibilities. Question was asked...IS IT OK WITH YOU...and for me, it's not ok, FOR ME. I'm thirsty for that human contact of training in the MA because to many unnoticed questions that are unanswered.



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Himokiri Karate
Blue Belt
Blue Belt

Joined: 13 Aug 2009
Posts: 310


PostPosted: Wed Jun 02, 2021 7:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

sensei8 wrote:
Any methods of learning should be entertained as to the many possibilities. Question was asked...IS IT OK WITH YOU...and for me, it's not ok, FOR ME. I'm thirsty for that human contact of training in the MA because to many unnoticed questions that are unanswered.




I agree now whole heartedly. We are human beings and martial arts is a social activity. But most importantly comes down to productivity. I excel with a teacher who is proactively checking my form. I also like the fact that my current teacher is my junior in age but is very open minded and actually likes some of the Tang Soo Do stuff that I do. The ability to analyze and compare creates a broad perspective.

Solo training cannot measure up to a dynamic. Thank god that its super affordable private lessons. I am in Canada and we are still in lockdown mode and our policy is that, private lessons are alright but adult classes are a big no. I am taking advantage of the situation to learn as much as I can in a private setting with a great teacher who has great passion for martial arts.
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sensei8
KF Sensei
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Joined: 23 Feb 2008
Posts: 15453
Location: Houston, TX
Styles: Shindokan Saitou-ryu [Shuri-te/Okinawa-te based]

PostPosted: Fri Jun 04, 2021 10:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Himokiri Karate wrote:
sensei8 wrote:
Any methods of learning should be entertained as to the many possibilities. Question was asked...IS IT OK WITH YOU...and for me, it's not ok, FOR ME. I'm thirsty for that human contact of training in the MA because to many unnoticed questions that are unanswered.




I agree now whole heartedly. We are human beings and martial arts is a social activity. But most importantly comes down to productivity. I excel with a teacher who is proactively checking my form. I also like the fact that my current teacher is my junior in age but is very open minded and actually likes some of the Tang Soo Do stuff that I do. The ability to analyze and compare creates a broad perspective.

Solo training cannot measure up to a dynamic. Thank god that its super affordable private lessons. I am in Canada and we are still in lockdown mode and our policy is that, private lessons are alright but adult classes are a big no. I am taking advantage of the situation to learn as much as I can in a private setting with a great teacher who has great passion for martial arts.

Solid post!!

Live training is no good without a partner to explore both the known and the unknown.



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Himokiri Karate
Blue Belt
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Joined: 13 Aug 2009
Posts: 310


PostPosted: Sat Jun 05, 2021 7:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

sensei8 wrote:
Himokiri Karate wrote:
sensei8 wrote:
Any methods of learning should be entertained as to the many possibilities. Question was asked...IS IT OK WITH YOU...and for me, it's not ok, FOR ME. I'm thirsty for that human contact of training in the MA because to many unnoticed questions that are unanswered.




I agree now whole heartedly. We are human beings and martial arts is a social activity. But most importantly comes down to productivity. I excel with a teacher who is proactively checking my form. I also like the fact that my current teacher is my junior in age but is very open minded and actually likes some of the Tang Soo Do stuff that I do. The ability to analyze and compare creates a broad perspective.

Solo training cannot measure up to a dynamic. Thank god that its super affordable private lessons. I am in Canada and we are still in lockdown mode and our policy is that, private lessons are alright but adult classes are a big no. I am taking advantage of the situation to learn as much as I can in a private setting with a great teacher who has great passion for martial arts.

Solid post!!

Live training is no good without a partner to explore both the known and the unknown.





Funny thing is, I always felt weird about practicing Taekwondo. Like does it mean I have to find a Taekwondo forum or if I have to shed my Tang Soo Do fully. But I read a book that there were 9 Kwans and they all taught different forms of Tang Soo Do. Long story short, they renamed it to Taekwondo for national identity and added more kicks for distinction. I also read a book from one of the early Taekwondo practitioners and Dan Nolan who refer and combine both Tang Soo Do and Taekwondo as Korean Karate.


Either way, this feels right in my hear of hearts. Going through an intense training session with two styles of difficulty. One is overcoming the challenge of uncovering a new technique and the subtlety that makes it effective and two, the non stop conditioning drills that requires extreme effort. All is worth it when my instructor is a great human being who is open with Tang Soo Do/Karate techniques being employed.


Without a doubt, I changed my mind a 100 percent. Sometimes its just best to wait it out for a great master to keep that sponge pure from impure teachers and also not pick up bad habits or even worse, meet a bad human being as a teacher that can really diminish this incredible journey that is the martial arts.
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sensei8
KF Sensei
KF Sensei

Joined: 23 Feb 2008
Posts: 15453
Location: Houston, TX
Styles: Shindokan Saitou-ryu [Shuri-te/Okinawa-te based]

PostPosted: Mon Jun 07, 2021 1:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Himokiri Karate wrote:
sensei8 wrote:
Himokiri Karate wrote:
sensei8 wrote:
Any methods of learning should be entertained as to the many possibilities. Question was asked...IS IT OK WITH YOU...and for me, it's not ok, FOR ME. I'm thirsty for that human contact of training in the MA because to many unnoticed questions that are unanswered.




I agree now whole heartedly. We are human beings and martial arts is a social activity. But most importantly comes down to productivity. I excel with a teacher who is proactively checking my form. I also like the fact that my current teacher is my junior in age but is very open minded and actually likes some of the Tang Soo Do stuff that I do. The ability to analyze and compare creates a broad perspective.

Solo training cannot measure up to a dynamic. Thank god that its super affordable private lessons. I am in Canada and we are still in lockdown mode and our policy is that, private lessons are alright but adult classes are a big no. I am taking advantage of the situation to learn as much as I can in a private setting with a great teacher who has great passion for martial arts.

Solid post!!

Live training is no good without a partner to explore both the known and the unknown.





Funny thing is, I always felt weird about practicing Taekwondo. Like does it mean I have to find a Taekwondo forum or if I have to shed my Tang Soo Do fully. But I read a book that there were 9 Kwans and they all taught different forms of Tang Soo Do. Long story short, they renamed it to Taekwondo for national identity and added more kicks for distinction. I also read a book from one of the early Taekwondo practitioners and Dan Nolan who refer and combine both Tang Soo Do and Taekwondo as Korean Karate.


Either way, this feels right in my hear of hearts. Going through an intense training session with two styles of difficulty. One is overcoming the challenge of uncovering a new technique and the subtlety that makes it effective and two, the non stop conditioning drills that requires extreme effort. All is worth it when my instructor is a great human being who is open with Tang Soo Do/Karate techniques being employed.


Without a doubt, I changed my mind a 100 percent. Sometimes its just best to wait it out for a great master to keep that sponge pure from impure teachers and also not pick up bad habits or even worse, meet a bad human being as a teacher that can really diminish this incredible journey that is the martial arts.

Very solid post!!



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vergil96
White Belt
White Belt

Joined: 02 Sep 2021
Posts: 17

Styles: Karate Shotokan, Judo

PostPosted: Sun Sep 19, 2021 10:02 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Getting a kyu online somehow works in my head, a dan - not really. Getting your dan degree is a really important event and isn't like regular exams that happen every few months. Not every examinator awards dan degrees too.
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GS718Trek
Yellow Belt
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Joined: 08 Oct 2014
Posts: 61


PostPosted: Mon Oct 18, 2021 2:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Some high profile Martial artists/MMA fighters (which I will not name) do actually award belts online via video testing. Although I do not generally agree with the method-it seems to be a increasingly accepted way to test and earn rank.
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