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sensei8
KF Sensei
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Joined: 23 Feb 2008
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Styles: Shindokan Saitou-ryu [Shuri-te/Okinawa-te based]

PostPosted: Mon Feb 09, 2015 6:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
i) Holder of the Nationality of the participating team.

I don't understand that description.



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truejim
Yellow Belt
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Joined: 30 Oct 2014
Posts: 32
Location: Virginia
Styles: Kukkiwon/WTF

PostPosted: Mon Feb 09, 2015 8:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

sensei8 wrote:
Quote:
i) Holder of the Nationality of the participating team.

I don't understand that description.


I interpreted that to mean, if you're going to compete on the U.S. team in an international tournament, you have to be a U.S. person; if you're going to compete on the French team, you have to be a French person, etc.

So yah, that first clause only seems to make sense in the context of an international tournament where you're representing your country. So does that mean all three clauses are intended to pertain to international tournaments? I have no idea.
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truejim
Yellow Belt
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Joined: 30 Oct 2014
Posts: 32
Location: Virginia
Styles: Kukkiwon/WTF

PostPosted: Mon Feb 09, 2015 9:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

So going straight to the source, the WTF website and its tournament rules, http://ftp.worldtaekwondofederation.net/images/Final_Competition_Rules_Amendments_E-Voting_2014_copy_copy.pdf

Article 4, Paragraph 1, page 8:

1 Qualification of Contestant
1.1 Holder of the nationality of the participating team
1.2 One recommended by the WTF National Taekwondo Association
1.3 Holder of Taekwondo Dan/Poom certificate issued by the Kukkiwon or WTF
1.4 Holder of the WTF Global Athlete License (GAL)
1.5 Contestants at the age of at least 17 years old in the year the pertinent tournament is held (15-17 years old for
Junior Taekwondo Championships and 12-14 years old for Cadet Championships). Ages for Youth Olympic
Games might be different depending on the decision of the IOC.


So now, what kind of tournaments does that apply to? Article 2 explains what kind of tournaments these rules apply to:

1 The Competition Rules shall apply to all the competitions to be promoted and/or organized by the WTF, each
Continental Union and member National Association. However, any member National Association wishing to modify
some or any part of the Competition Rules must first gain the prior approval of the WTF. In the case that a Continental
Union and/or a Member National Association violates WTF Competition Rules without prior approval of the WTF, the
WTF may exercise its discretion to disapprove or revoke its approval of the concerned international tournament. In
addition, the WTF may take further disciplinary actions to the pertinent Continental Union or Member National
Association.
2 All competitions promoted, organized, or sanctioned by the WTF shall observe the WTF Statutes, the Bylaws of
Dispute Resolution and Disciplinary Action, and all other pertinent rules and regulations.
3 All competitions promoted, organized, or sanctioned by the WTF shall abide by the WTF Medical Code and the WTF
Anti-Doping Rules.


To me, that would seem to imply that the rule applies even to national WTF tournaments, not just international tournaments. So I have no idea why I see so many websites saying that other taekwondo styles have long been allowed to compete in WTF tournaments. Mystery.

I guess in light of the new ITF/WTF agreement, those rules are going to need to be re-written anyway?
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sensei8
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Joined: 23 Feb 2008
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Styles: Shindokan Saitou-ryu [Shuri-te/Okinawa-te based]

PostPosted: Mon Feb 09, 2015 10:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well. I sincerely wish them much success for them both/all in their new endeavor!!



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DWx
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Joined: 17 Jan 2007
Posts: 6155
Location: UK
Styles: Tae Kwon Do & Yang family Tai Chi

PostPosted: Tue Feb 10, 2015 1:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Great research truejim!

Quote:
To me, that would seem to imply that the rule applies even to national WTF tournaments, not just international tournaments. So I have no idea why I see so many websites saying that other taekwondo styles have long been allowed to compete in WTF tournaments. Mystery

Having competed at the equivalent level in ITF, and having friends that also do, if we've ever wanted to make the Olympic team we had to swap styles. For London 2012 Team GB ran a programme to take ITF fighters (and kick boxers etc.), train them up, give them a blackbelt and put them on the squad. I had a few friends go through the process. Think they're doing the same for Rio next year.
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bushido_man96
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Joined: 31 Mar 2006
Posts: 27790
Location: Hays, KS
Styles: Taekwondo, Combat Hapkido, Aikido, GRACIE

PostPosted: Tue Feb 10, 2015 1:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

DWx wrote:
Great research truejim!

Quote:
To me, that would seem to imply that the rule applies even to national WTF tournaments, not just international tournaments. So I have no idea why I see so many websites saying that other taekwondo styles have long been allowed to compete in WTF tournaments. Mystery

Having competed at the equivalent level in ITF, and having friends that also do, if we've ever wanted to make the Olympic team we had to swap styles. For London 2012 Team GB ran a programme to take ITF fighters (and kick boxers etc.), train them up, give them a blackbelt and put them on the squad. I had a few friends go through the process. Think they're doing the same for Rio next year.
To me, its seems foolish to have to do this with the ITF stylists. If they will start accepting their rank, then this should make the transition easier for them to compete. This is just good for TKD in general.
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truejim
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Joined: 30 Oct 2014
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Location: Virginia
Styles: Kukkiwon/WTF

PostPosted: Fri Feb 13, 2015 7:39 am    Post subject: Re: ITF Taekwondo now OK'd for Olympic games Reply with quote

DWx wrote:
http://news.yahoo.com/taekwondo-fighters-rival-group-now-ok-olympics-122158079.html

Without a rule change I doubt this will have much effect on the athletes (ITFers would still have to learn to fight under WTF rules and change style) but it is nice to see an olive branch extended and the two Federations working closer together.


I don't know much about tournaments for the three ITFs...is it already the case that if you're in one ITF you're allowed to compete in tournaments for one of the other ITFs?

Also, does this Accord with the WTF apply to only one of the ITFs?
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DWx
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Joined: 17 Jan 2007
Posts: 6155
Location: UK
Styles: Tae Kwon Do & Yang family Tai Chi

PostPosted: Fri Feb 13, 2015 4:28 pm    Post subject: Re: ITF Taekwondo now OK'd for Olympic games Reply with quote

truejim wrote:
DWx wrote:
http://news.yahoo.com/taekwondo-fighters-rival-group-now-ok-olympics-122158079.html

Without a rule change I doubt this will have much effect on the athletes (ITFers would still have to learn to fight under WTF rules and change style) but it is nice to see an olive branch extended and the two Federations working closer together.


I don't know much about tournaments for the three ITFs...is it already the case that if you're in one ITF you're allowed to compete in tournaments for one of the other ITFs?

Also, does this Accord with the WTF apply to only one of the ITFs?

It depends. On a national level they tend to be open tournaments that anyone can compete at as long as you follow the rules of the organisation hosting. So certainly in the UK and I know elsewhere in Europe all the ITFers compete in each others tournaments. We also get some WTFers and other TKD styles come to compete in sparring and breaking. There are some minor rule differences and technical differences across the 3 groups that you have to bear in mind though if you wanted to switch between them all.

On a continental and world level? To my knowledge the rules forbid this as the criteria for participation is that you are a member of a relevant NGB and hold a valid blackbelt certificate number. You can only realistically be a member of one group so does prevent others from competing. You can transfer and move groups but at any one time you'd only be able to compete at one tournament. This restriction also means WTFers couldn't compete unless they were ranked in ITF too.

One of the ITF groups is also holding an open World Cup which any of the groups can attend. Does look like quite a good tournament.
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Prototype
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Joined: 15 Dec 2016
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 15, 2016 6:43 am    Post subject: Re: ITF Taekwondo now OK'd for Olympic games Reply with quote

truejim wrote:
DWx wrote:
http://news.yahoo.com/taekwondo-fighters-rival-group-now-ok-olympics-122158079.html


If I'm not mistaken then, the only "new news" here isn't so much that ITF folks can compete in WTF tournaments, it's that finally WTF folks are allowed to compete in ITF tournaments. Yes?


ITF-TaeKwon-Do black belts were not eligible to compete in the Olympics before this decision.
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