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DWx
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 06, 2015 5:52 pm    Post subject: ITF Taekwondo now OK'd for Olympic games Reply with quote

http://news.yahoo.com/taekwondo-fighters-rival-group-now-ok-olympics-122158079.html

Without a rule change I doubt this will have much effect on the athletes (ITFers would still have to learn to fight under WTF rules and change style) but it is nice to see an olive branch extended and the two Federations working closer together.
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bushido_man96
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 06, 2015 11:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

This is great news! I doubt any rule changes come about, but interested ITF practitioners would really only need to seek the coaching necessary to prepare them. Great news!
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sensei8
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 07, 2015 8:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Interesting news...Thanks for sharing it, Danielle!! Will these rival groups get along on and off the competition floor?? I hope so, and I'm on the fence on my pessimistic doubts because governing bodies don't like to play and share things. The IOC will have to be large and in charge all of the time.



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truejim
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 07, 2015 8:27 pm    Post subject: Re: ITF Taekwondo now OK'd for Olympic games Reply with quote

DWx wrote:
http://news.yahoo.com/taekwondo-fighters-rival-group-now-ok-olympics-122158079.html


Am I mistaken, I was under the impression that it has long been the case that WTF-sanctioned tournaments allow any person - regardless of school affiliation or martial arts style - to compete in WTF events as long as he or she is a member of the WTF Member National Association in his or her nation; this allows essentially anyone to compete in WTF-sanctioned competitions. I mean, you don't even need to be a taekwondo practitioner to compete in a WTF-tournament...literally any martial artist who competes under the WTF rules is allowed to compete.

If I'm not mistaken then, the only "new news" here isn't so much that ITF folks can compete in WTF tournaments, it's that finally WTF folks are allowed to compete in ITF tournaments. Yes?
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sensei8
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 07, 2015 8:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I must've missed that one. I thought all members, of either governing body, had to be practitioners of TKD!!



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DWx
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 08, 2015 5:35 am    Post subject: Re: ITF Taekwondo now OK'd for Olympic games Reply with quote

truejim wrote:
DWx wrote:
http://news.yahoo.com/taekwondo-fighters-rival-group-now-ok-olympics-122158079.html


Am I mistaken, I was under the impression that it has long been the case that WTF-sanctioned tournaments allow any person - regardless of school affiliation or martial arts style - to compete in WTF events as long as he or she is a member of the WTF Member National Association in his or her nation; this allows essentially anyone to compete in WTF-sanctioned competitions. I mean, you don't even need to be a taekwondo practitioner to compete in a WTF-tournament...literally any martial artist who competes under the WTF rules is allowed to compete.

If I'm not mistaken then, the only "new news" here isn't so much that ITF folks can compete in WTF tournaments, it's that finally WTF folks are allowed to compete in ITF tournaments. Yes?

I think it's the bolded part above which has changed. Previously ITFers have had to join the WTF association to compete at the Olympics e.g. Aaron Cook

It has been a goal of ITF for sometime to get Olympic recognition and these talks have been going on for the best part of a few years now

http://www.worldtaekwondofederation.net/news-news/item/1537-world-taekwondo-federation-international-taekwondo-federation-sign-historic-memorandum/1537-world-taekwondo-federation-international-taekwondo-federation-sign-historic-memorandum
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truejim
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 08, 2015 9:06 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

sensei8 wrote:
I must've missed that one. I thought all members, of either governing body, had to be practitioners of TKD!!


I could be mistaken, but I don't think even that is true, which I agree is kind of surprising.

For example, when you sign up at the US Taekwondo Union ("USA Taekwondo") website, when it asks for your club name on the signup webpage, you're allowed to put "Not-Affiliated" for your school -- i.e., you're not affiliated with any taekwondo club or school.

In principle, you could just be any ol' fighter who's agreeing to fight by WTF rules; there's nothing on the signup sheet that asks, "Do you even practice taekwondo?" I don't think they care, as long as you're fighting by WTF rules. That's what makes it possible for them to welcome fighters from literally any taekwondo style.

I could be mistaken about that; I'm just inferring that from the signup webpage. But if you think about it, it makes sense. There are so many different styles of taekwondo, how would one even decide what constitutes "taekwondo" vs. "karate" as long as the fighter is obeying the WTF sparring rules?

If I'm not mistaken, then really any martial artist can -in principle - fight in a WTF tournament. Would they do well? I would guess probably not since the rules are geared toward awarding points for a certain type of kicking. But hey...in the unlikely event that you were a Kung Fu guy who learned how to WTF spar, I think you'd actually be allowed in!
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sensei8
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 08, 2015 9:14 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

truejim wrote:
sensei8 wrote:
I must've missed that one. I thought all members, of either governing body, had to be practitioners of TKD!!


I could be mistaken, but I don't think even that is true, which I agree is kind of surprising.

For example, when you sign up at the US Taekwondo Union ("USA Taekwondo") website, when it asks for your club name on the signup webpage, you're allowed to put "Not-Affiliated" for your school -- i.e., you're not affiliated with any taekwondo club or school.

In principle, you could just be any ol' fighter who's agreeing to fight by WTF rules; there's nothing on the signup sheet that asks, "Do you even practice taekwondo?" I don't think they care, as long as you're fighting by WTF rules. That's what makes it possible for them to welcome fighters from literally any taekwondo style.

I could be mistaken about that; I'm just inferring that from the signup webpage. But if you think about it, it makes sense. There are so many different styles of taekwondo, how would one even decide what constitutes "taekwondo" vs. "karate" as long as the fighter is obeying the WTF sparring rules?

If I'm not mistaken, then really any martial artist can -in principle - fight in a WTF tournament. Would they do well? I would guess probably not since the rules are geared toward awarding points for a certain type of kicking. But hey...in the unlikely event that you were a Kung Fu guy who learned how to WTF spar, I think you'd actually be allowed in!

Interesting!!

If this is true, and had been true during my tournament days, 1964-1993, I would've jumped at it in a heartbeat. In my days, many TKD practitioners entered open tournaments in droves, and I welcomed them because they offered something not often thought about by karateka's...a kicking arsenal unlike Karate.



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bushido_man96
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 09, 2015 12:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

sensei8 wrote:
truejim wrote:
sensei8 wrote:
I must've missed that one. I thought all members, of either governing body, had to be practitioners of TKD!!


I could be mistaken, but I don't think even that is true, which I agree is kind of surprising.

For example, when you sign up at the US Taekwondo Union ("USA Taekwondo") website, when it asks for your club name on the signup webpage, you're allowed to put "Not-Affiliated" for your school -- i.e., you're not affiliated with any taekwondo club or school.

In principle, you could just be any ol' fighter who's agreeing to fight by WTF rules; there's nothing on the signup sheet that asks, "Do you even practice taekwondo?" I don't think they care, as long as you're fighting by WTF rules. That's what makes it possible for them to welcome fighters from literally any taekwondo style.

I could be mistaken about that; I'm just inferring that from the signup webpage. But if you think about it, it makes sense. There are so many different styles of taekwondo, how would one even decide what constitutes "taekwondo" vs. "karate" as long as the fighter is obeying the WTF sparring rules?

If I'm not mistaken, then really any martial artist can -in principle - fight in a WTF tournament. Would they do well? I would guess probably not since the rules are geared toward awarding points for a certain type of kicking. But hey...in the unlikely event that you were a Kung Fu guy who learned how to WTF spar, I think you'd actually be allowed in!

Interesting!!

If this is true, and had been true during my tournament days, 1964-1993, I would've jumped at it in a heartbeat. In my days, many TKD practitioners entered open tournaments in droves, and I welcomed them because they offered something not often thought about by karateka's...a kicking arsenal unlike Karate.




I was under the impression that one had to have a WTF/Kukki black belt certification in order to compete in WTF tournaments, especially the international level tournaments.

What I think this does is allow the student to be recognized as an ITF member, instead of having to attain rank in both ITF and WTF.

Danielle, do you have anything else on this?
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truejim
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 09, 2015 6:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

bushido_man96 wrote:

I was under the impression that one had to have a WTF/Kukki black belt certification in order to compete in WTF tournaments, especially the international level tournaments.


Googling on this a bit, I do see websites that agree with what you're saying, for example: http://www.tkd.net/tkdnetwork/sport.html

1. Qualification of contestants

i) Holder of the Nationality of the participating team.
ii) One recommended by the National Taekwondo Federation.
iii) Holder of Taekwondo dan certificate issued by the Kukkiwon/WTF.

But then anecdotally I've also seen this claim many times in the past from a variety of sources, such as http://www.hanstaekwondo.ca/toronto-taekwondo/organizations-wtf-itf.html

"However, the WTF-sanctioned events allow any person, regardless of school affiliation or martial arts style, to compete in WTF events as long as he or she is a member of the WTF Member National Association in his or her nation, which is open to anyone to join."

It's difficult to see how both of those things could be true at the same time so...am confused.
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