Respecting Younger Instructors

BlueDragon1981 · Red Belt

I think maturity and qualification are what matter here. Not age. Im 21. I've been teaching since Purple belt. Only ranks lower. I am also from a small town. The instructor is usually always there but every once in awhile he can not make it. Black belts do not come easy in my school. (Out of 60 students on the roster, there are 4 black belts, two live 45 minutes away and usually work durning class times. The other two also work odd hours. So if the main instructor, who is a 7th dan, isnt there the highest ranking individual holds class.) Like with monkeygirl no sparring is to be done if a black belt is not present.

I also have people in my class of higher rank that I would never listen to. They are almost in there thirties but even with the age do not have any maturity. (Not to mention they should not be the rank they are)

My honest opinion is that age isnt the factor, but maturity. Of course there are limits on this too. I think to show any maturity you have to at least be 14 or 15 years old. The majority of people under that age do not have maturity. I have met some people 45-50 years old though that are not mature.

monkeygirl · KF VIP

*sigh*
Shotochem I understand your intentions, but I was exaggerating.
We don't even HAVE 300 lbs. students in our school. However, I can throw 150-200 lb guys, or do techniques on them, and that's the average male agressor. Of course I would run like crazy if I encountered a 300 lb guy; I simply said 300 lbs to place emphasis on the difference in weight. It's supposed to prove that if I can do this technique and make it work, ANYONE can. Clears any and all skepticism right away

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diamondick · Orange Belt

I think there should be classes for adults instructed by adults
and classes for kids that could be instructed by kids I think mixing all of them up will only bring problems.
Even if a kid is good technically he or she is lacking things that age brings.

This is my personal opinion anyway

I would refrase the original topic

Young instructors respecting older students

Martial_Artist · Pre-Black Belt

I just have something useless to add. With everyone's permission that is.

I've read the posts throughout this thread and have come upon something that quite disturbs me.

I've read comments along the line of, "I pay money, so I get to set the conditions of my training. I get to choose how I am taught."

Sadly, this mentality is poisonous to martial arts progression.

The student approaches the master in humility, asking, "Will you please teach me?" The master humbly accepts. The student does not tell the master, "I don't like that way, teach me another way." The master, is the master for a reason, and teaches how he feels fit.

No amount of money paid in a dojo gives the student right to demand anything from the master. If the student is unhappy with his instructor, then the student may find another dojo. (This is a common case because of the lack of serious martial arts schools, and the plethora of McDojo's littering the planet)

However, if you approach a respectable instructor and make the disrespectful claim that just because you pay money for your lessons that you deserve to be instructed how YOU want to be, and not how the instructor sees fit, then you are not of the right mindsey to be asking the instructor for lessons.

I once taught for money, along time ago. I had a student tell me the same thing. I pay money, I want it doen this way. I don't like that way, &c. I returned his money and told him never to return to me again. He doesn't want to be taught martial arts. He wants to pay for a ranking, the ability to say he knows this art, and these techniques. He was not the type of student I accept anymore.

Now, perhaps, those who made the comments about the money truly want to learn the martial arts. I can't say. After all, I am just merely reading posts and not talking with them personally.

But if you go to a dojo and ask the instructor, or master, for lessons, to be taught. Then you do what he says. You follow the class as HE has arranged it. He is the master, the instructor. Not you. Whatever HE feels is necessary it your duty as a humble student to follow it. Do YOU know more than the instructor? If so, then why have you sought lessons at his hands?

If you don't like the way your being taught then leave. Do not be so rude or disrespectful as to say, "I pay money..." Money does not grant you special treatment in the house of the martial arts.

As for children teaching, that is anyone below 18, this is all I have to say. I don't recommend it. They can assist the teacher and help the rest of the class, but solo teaching I don't recommend. Now, if the student is exemplary, then he can help the teacher.

The student may be able to comprehend the techniques and perform them, but that is not all there is to teaching a technique. There is the experience behind it, the years of use and comprehension that youth, not to any fault of theirs, do not yet possess.

This doesn't make the youth incapable of teaching someone how to perform a technique, but it does hinder them in teaching the why, or the reasons behind. Dojo experience vs life exprience is a pretty unfairly balanced comparison. Life experience outweighing dojo experience.

A teacher though, is someone that does more than simply convey a technique. He allos conveys a part of his life's history and experience in teaching the techniques. A rich flavor that cannot be artificially added to the teaching.

After 18, if the student is exemplary and has years of training, I don't see anything wrong with them assist teaching, or taking over on nights when the instructor can't teach. However, the instructor is going to have years more comprehension on any number of questions that the novice instructor may not be able to answer.

The young are bright and should not be so easily ruled out by the criteria most posts have named. But experience can be a much more forceful teacher. To teach from having done, rather than merely having studied is a better platform to proclaim your message.

To teach a side kick because you have learned the side kick is not as effective as to teach a side kick because you have used the side kick. In other words, I can spend my whole life learning techniques within a dojo and not have near the comprehension about the life of the techniques as someone who has done the same, but applied each of those techniques when they mattered. That person is going to better understand the heart of the techniques. I may know the moves just as well as he, but he knows the life, the soul of those moves. Something I could not learn without experience.

My eyebrow was slightly raised at the ,"I pay money, I get what I want," comments, and thought I should share a bit on that.

Teaching isn't a thing to be taken lightly. When you are teaching someone who is a blank slate, you must take care and understand you are forging that person's lasting impression of martial arts. You are shaping how that martial artist will be the rest of his martial arts life. It is a great responsibility. You should ask yourself, "Am I ready to be responisible for how this person turns out as a martial artist?" It is the teacher who molds the student. The quality of the student can only be matched by the quality of the instructor.
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Imagination is more important than knowledge.
Knowledge is limited. Imagination encircles the world." Einstein

shotochem · Pre-Black Belt

No amount of money paid in a dojo gives the student right to demand anything from the master. If the student is unhappy with his instructor, then the student may find another dojo. (This is a common case because of the lack of serious martial arts schools, and the plethora of McDojo's littering the planet)

Agreed, this is basically the point I was trying to make. I personally feel more comfortable learning form an instructor closer to my age. I have no problems with 18 or over. An older instructor is more likely to push me harder and further than a younger one. I would think it would be uncomfortable for the younger instructor to really dig into a lazy older student.

However, if you approach a respectable instructor and make the disrespectful claim that just because you pay money for your lessons that you deserve to be instructed how YOU want to be, and not how the instructor sees fit, then you are not of the right mindsey to be asking the instructor for lessons.

You misunderstand me. That is not the message I wish to convey. I never stated how I should be trained, but by whom. The comment about me paying for it is just that. If my dojo decided to have jrs.and asst. teach regularly, I would find another dojo.

I once taught for money, along time ago. I had a student tell me the same thing. I pay money, I want it doen this way. I don't like that way, &c. I returned his money and told him never to return to me again. He doesn't want to be taught martial arts. He wants to pay for a ranking, the ability to say he knows this art, and these techniques. He was not the type of student I accept anymore.

I take my training seriously. I do not wish to "buy" myself a belt. I could care less about rankings. They are for kids. I do not want to make a rank, I just strive to be a little better each day. I train for me. As long as I imporve myself that is all that matters. I salute your integrity. If more instructors did this the MA would not be so watered down.

To teach a side kick because you have learned the side kick is not as effective as to teach a side kick because you have used the side kick. In other words, I can spend my whole life learning techniques within a dojo and not have near the comprehension about the life of the techniques as someone who has done the same, but applied each of those techniques when they mattered. That person is going to better understand the heart of the techniques. I may know the moves just as well as he, but he knows the life, the soul of those moves. Something I could not learn without experience.

I wish I could have articulated ithe way you did; This is what I feel. The experience as well as knowledge is what Im looking for. The ability to help me understand the movements Im doing instead of just doing them, as well as to be able to apply them in a situation.

Teaching isn't a thing to be taken lightly. When you are teaching someone who is a blank slate, you must take care and understand you are forging that person's lasting impression of martial arts. You are shaping how that martial artist will be the rest of his martial arts life. It is a great responsibility. You should ask yourself, "Am I ready to be responisible for how this person turns out as a martial artist?" It is the teacher who molds the student. The quality of the student can only be matched by the quality of the instructor.

Yes agreed, that is why I train where I do. Its really a personal preference. I am not so ignorant to say that I have not learned greatly from younger students of higher rank. I learn something new from all every day. I hold the highest respect for all of my dojomates. The fact is the older adult instructors are better and more experienced and I learn more from them.

That is what Im trying to say.
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BlueDragon1981 · Red Belt

The more years you teach the better you get at teaching (generally). So if you start learning how to teach at a young age it not only teaches you greater respect for the art but greater respect for people. You have to adapt to them. Something you learned easy may not come easy to them. So you have to learn to break it down. From my personal experience (remember this is from the area I'm in.) Younger instructors tend to be more adaptable. That could be because the older ones are stubborn. Im not saying I learn more from either. I take what I get from each instructor. That is just my mind set. You can learn maturity. Teaching sometimes helps you learn it quicker. Also if you are a higher rank teaching an adult you learn much different things than teaching children. Adults (generally) pay attention much better. SO you can concentrate on different things. Children sometimes you have to spend time getting them to pay attention. Teens are in the middle of this, but (generally) have more of a natural ability than adults. (I have to adapt the way I teach to someone 50 years old because there bodies are not like they were when they were 16) So my opinion is that Maturity and Ability to get points across are more important than age.

DeeLovesKarate · Orange Belt

I disagree with age restrictions on teaching. At my school, at the level of brown belt, you can help teach a class of younger, and lower ranked students. I help teach some four-year olds. My sensei believes that part of learning is learning to pass what you know on to others. As you rise in ranks, from brown belt, you teach older, and higher ranked students. At blackbelt, teaching becomes a full-time job at the dojo. A great system, I believe.
Grrrr,
Dee

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hobbitbob · Purple Belt

I thought long and hard about posting on this discussion, but here goes (open mouth, insert feet!). I don't object to the concept of Moneygirl ASSISTING in instruction. My concerns lie in the thought of soemone who is:
a) 15 years old.
b) a beginner
teaching class. This isn't her fault, it is the bad judgement of her instructors. The age issue actually doesn't bother me as much as the issue of someone at the level of 1st kyu teaching an entire class. In reality, anyone who has under 10 years or so of training is qualified to lead class, but hasn't the knowledge and abilities to make adequate corrections. Instructional ability comes from long periods of analyzing techniques and of observing human interactions. I don't feel that someone with as littel training time,and as littel actual time alive as she could adequately "instruct."
Having said that, let me say that I have found her posts to be quite mature for someone of teh early teen years. I have no doubt that she can ;lead the occaisional class. We frequently have one of our 16 y.o. first dans up front at the Uni TKD club, and he does a wonderful job WITH DIRECT SUPERVISION. Frequently we put him up front so that the instructor staff can wander and make spot corrections. IN that case, the person up front serves as a "metronome" to call counts, etc...
The thing I have found is: Until one has about ten-twelve years of practice to their credit, one tends not to run a practice that is beneficial to the entire class, rather one tends to work on what one feels one needs to do that particular day. This can be observed anywhere from the warm-up, which when led by novices tends to be long on jumping jacks and short on stretching, to basics practice, where the tendency is to show how much you know vs. how little everyone else knows. It takes time and maturity to be able to intuit what is beneficial to teh groups at large, rather then what is beneficial to you as an individual.
Sorry Monkeygirl, feel free to pounce!
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monkeygirl · KF VIP

You have made some good points,
BUT THEY'RE WRONG!!!

just kidding....

For one thing I'm not 1st kyu anymore, I'm 1st dan

In April 2003, I will have officially been teaching for more than half as long as I've been training. In other words, I've spent more time in the MA with teaching than not teaching.
Anyway, my point has always been, how can someone just magically become a good teacher after 10 years? Even that person will probably find the transition from learning to teaching very awkward. Possibly even more so because they have done nothing but learn for 10 years. I think that you must practice teaching to become an instructor, just like you must practice belt requirements to become a black belt. I am by no means the greatest instructor in the world, and I'm probably just barely a good one. But I'll never be anything better unless I practice.
Not going to get into too much detail because I might get a bit angry

However, I would appreciate it if you didn't accuse my instructor of having bad judgement...he himself has been involved in martial arts for over 25 years, so I definitely think HE knows what's he's doing

_________________
1st dan & Asst. Instructor TKD 2000-2003

No matter the tune...if you can rock it, rock it hard.

G95champ · Black Belt

Keep in mind everyone that there is a differance in teaching your own school and teaching under a head instructor.
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(General George S. Patton Jr.) "It's the unconquerable soul of man, and not the nature of the weapon he uses, that ensures victory."

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