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bushido_man96
KF Sensei
Joined: 31 Mar 2006
Posts: 30188
Location: Hays, KS
Styles: Taekwondo, Combat Hapkido, Aikido, GRACIE, Police Krav Maga, SPEAR
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 Posted: Tue Nov 03, 2009 4:48 pm Post subject: |
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I do agree with the proficiency levels that professionals fighters train for, and that it will be a boon to them, should they need to defend themselves.
I do think that we are beginning to see more and more that self-defense instructors put more of a point on improving physical fitness levels to help in self-defense. You also see more MMA types skills seeping into SD training.
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www.haysgym.com
http://www.sunyis.com/
www.aikidoofnorthwestkansas.com |
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MMA_Jim
Blue Belt
Joined: 05 Dec 2007
Posts: 275
Location: Philadelphia
Styles: BJJ, Muay Thai
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| Posted: Tue Nov 03, 2009 8:13 pm Post subject: Re: Self-Defense: Superior to fighting? |
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| joesteph wrote: |
| MMA_Jim wrote: |
| joesteph wrote: |
I thought of the self-defense JuJitsu classes I'd taken earlier this year, and I remembered there's a YouTube video in which my sensei's teacher is explaining "self-defense" as separate from and superior to "fighting." In the video itself, my sensei (who is a police officer in "real life") is the assailant that has to be dealt with in an RBSD manner. The video is at:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9e8xNmi77PM
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The video isnt working . . .
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Give it another try, Jim. It worked for me. Might have been a temporary glitch when you accessed. It's an interesting presentation. |
Ok it worked this time around- I've seen this guy before, but I dont know that I've got the patience to sit though some of his 10 minute videos.
Im not seeing a whole lot- it doesnt look much different than a typical Japanese Ju Jitsu class.
Heres some of the problems with what he says:
First he seems to have a problem with fighters, or people who are traing to fight. Now, first and foremost he IS correct when he suggests that self defense and fighting are two different demons. The catch is that self defense is the studying of the basics- something a (good) fighter will have had to studied in depth when he first started training. I am both a fighter and a self defense instructor- self defense is easy and as a result kinda fun.
That being said, I have seen fighters who neglected their self defense training from the beginning "oh I dont want to learn that stuff" and it cost them when some big goon put them in a headlock and they couldnt get out.
Now, alot of the techniques Im seeing him do are WAY to choreographed. You said your instructor plays the assailant in the video? Hes way to compliant. I cant stand when I see some karate instructor show an eye poke or something similar to what was shown on the video and the attacker is suddenly immobolized and completely compliant- it doesnt happen like that against a RESISTING opponent.
There seems to be a very heavy reliance on strikes. Now Im not saying strikes are bad, but in a self defense situation they may be. Everyone reacts to being hit different, regardless of how "deadly" the person throwing the strikes is. As such, you can never really say that someone is going to let go of a grip, grab their eyes, drop to a knee, or whatever else the overly compliant attacker does in these videos. I see it all too many times "the guy grabs me in a headlock so I grab his testes or poke his eyes and he lets go" In such positions your opponent has more control of YOU than you do of him. As a result if you start trying to trade shots with him, he can trade shots with you. He can do everything that you do to him and hes most likely going to fight back- not fall dead to the ground.
His "advice" on grappling. He has a great misconception- that grappling takes place on the ground. Some does, some takes place on the feet. Theres a popular saying "Grappling happens." That means no matter how bad you are, how well trained you are (world class kickboxers that are MUCH better strikers than he or ANYONE in his system find themselves taken to the ground) sometimes you end up on the ground or in a grappling situation. The best thing to do when that happens is to KNOW what to do and not just say "oh we dont train it because we dont want to be there" I always hear "stay on your feet, dont go to the ground against multiple attackers." Well the tools that help you most here are grappling tools- having the ability to maintain your balance and defend crude takedown attempts- something a pure striker will not be very proficient at. And when either one of it goes to the ground, I'll be the one that'll be able to get back to me feet again.
Now, why is so much credence given to the fighting styles ? (i.e. UFC styles) Simply put, because there is documented evidence that it unbias- videotapes- that show particular techniques working. When a fighter shows a technique and someone questions its validity, he can show a fight where he may have used the technique. Stories from the street dont count, because they're a dime a dozen and theres no way to refute them, so you really cant even bring them into the argument. Grappling works poorly on the street eh? While at work my staff and I fought our local college football team and I choked out 3 people, never got hit in the face, and avoided the ground (and they all outweighed me by at least 50lbs) all due to my grappling experience. Any story he or any other instructor wants to bring up- I can bring up one of my own and neither can be refuted. So lets keep it simple, show me a video of it working or be willing to test it against a resisting opponent. |
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RichardZ
Brown Belt
Joined: 03 Nov 2009
Posts: 624
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| Posted: Tue Nov 03, 2009 10:32 pm Post subject: |
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Good fighter = good at self defense.
This maybe a double edged sword.
A good fighter may indeed defend themself better than a average Joe.
However, self defense does not stand alone on physical fisticuffs.
Practical self defense has as much, if not more, mental development application, understanding or study far above physical. Brawn does not always win. Shear force does not always prevail. |
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bushido_man96
KF Sensei
Joined: 31 Mar 2006
Posts: 30188
Location: Hays, KS
Styles: Taekwondo, Combat Hapkido, Aikido, GRACIE, Police Krav Maga, SPEAR
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| Posted: Thu Nov 05, 2009 10:08 pm Post subject: |
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| RichardZ wrote: |
| Practical self defense has as much, if not more, mental development application, understanding or study far above physical. Brawn does not always win. Shear force does not always prevail. |
No, but, if one is skilled at employing these aspects in a combative, competitive environment, then they will be a boon to them in physical confrontation.
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http://www.sunyis.com/
www.aikidoofnorthwestkansas.com |
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RichardZ
Brown Belt
Joined: 03 Nov 2009
Posts: 624
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| Posted: Thu Nov 05, 2009 10:40 pm Post subject: |
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| Oh, so we went from shear force, then added skill. Well, for that matter if there was more skill over brawn, it can go on and is circumstantial. |
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bushido_man96
KF Sensei
Joined: 31 Mar 2006
Posts: 30188
Location: Hays, KS
Styles: Taekwondo, Combat Hapkido, Aikido, GRACIE, Police Krav Maga, SPEAR
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| Posted: Thu Nov 05, 2009 11:27 pm Post subject: |
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I don't think you can subtract skill in the first place. It would be safer to assume the presence of a skill than the absense of it. And even if skill is absent, you still have to take physicality into consideration.
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http://www.sunyis.com/
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RichardZ
Brown Belt
Joined: 03 Nov 2009
Posts: 624
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| Posted: Thu Nov 05, 2009 11:28 pm Post subject: |
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| Can physicality overcome skill? |
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bushido_man96
KF Sensei
Joined: 31 Mar 2006
Posts: 30188
Location: Hays, KS
Styles: Taekwondo, Combat Hapkido, Aikido, GRACIE, Police Krav Maga, SPEAR
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RichardZ
Brown Belt
Joined: 03 Nov 2009
Posts: 624
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| Posted: Thu Nov 05, 2009 11:33 pm Post subject: |
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| I have seen skilled bar bouncers kick the hell out of large people. |
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bushido_man96
KF Sensei
Joined: 31 Mar 2006
Posts: 30188
Location: Hays, KS
Styles: Taekwondo, Combat Hapkido, Aikido, GRACIE, Police Krav Maga, SPEAR
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on the post.
