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JohnC
Orange Belt
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Joined: 17 Nov 2008
Posts: 131


PostPosted: Wed Dec 03, 2008 2:35 pm    Post subject: Tactics vs. Techniques Reply with quote

Most of what I read when the topic of tactics comes up are really a catalog of techniques (e.g. do a throat strike, kick the knees). In my view tactics are a more general level above techniques. Thus, I'd like to start a topic around folk's offensive and defensive tactics. First, to define the term "tactic" and second to enumerate those tactics.

To level set, my art teaches strategically that the main objective is to end the fight as quickly as possible with the least risk of damage to oneself (both in the short term and the long term (i.e. aftermath)). To accomplish this objective, offensively one should attack / disrupt the opponent's:

Vision
Breathing
Balance
Structure (e.g. skeleton, nerve system, vascular system)

This is tactically accomplished, in part, through use of distance, angular attack, power generation through use of body movement then core strength then limb strength (in that order. Limbs are used more to transfer energy rather than create it), focusing on hitting vulnerable targets rather than using particular techniques and by technical precision.

Your thoughts?
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joesteph
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 03, 2008 8:37 pm    Post subject: Re: Tactics vs. Techniques Reply with quote

JohnC wrote:

Most of what I read when the topic of tactics comes up are really a catalog of techniques (e.g. do a throat strike, kick the knees). In my view tactics are a more general level above techniques.

When I think of tactics, John, I think of a battle plan, strategy, something along that line.

It always depends on the situation, but let's say it's a problem that I had had several years ago with a drunk walking down my side street. I got out of my car, which had a burglar device that made a sound when armed, and I heard someone call to me from across the street. I didn't know him, asked if I could help him, and he started cursing at me about having to hear the sound my car made when armed.

He was older that I was, but a fairly big guy. I told him I didn't want to know, walked over to my front steps with one eye on him, and started to climb the stairs. He came over to my steps, but I had stopped several up and turned around. While he cursed at me, I gave him the "Uh-huh. Yeah. Okay, get lost." response, and waited to see if he were going to climb up after me. If he did, then I was all set to give him a swift kick. He then went right by, still cursing at me. I'd never seen him before; I've never seen him since. (Poor little lost waif . . . )

I imagine the tactic was to separate from him, but as he followed me, a change in tactics was then to be in a position where I could defend myself (facing him, taking the "high ground"). The technique would have been a front kick, striking with my heel (to shove, which I still practice), and sending him flying backwards. Part of the tactic was also that, after knocking him down the stairs (technique), I'd call the police (another technique?) and point out that he attacked me on my property.

I'm not sorry I didn't have a fight with him; it's better this way. But I didn't respond with fear, carried out a quickly-made plan, and had a response in place.
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tallgeese
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Joined: 04 May 2008
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Location: McHenry County, IL
Styles: Brazilian Jiu Jitsu, Bujin Bugei Jutsu, Gokei Ryu Kempo Jutsu, MMA, Shootfighting, boxing, kickboxing, JKD, Pekiti Tersia Kali

PostPosted: Thu Dec 04, 2008 1:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I've always been of the thought that strategy is the grand plan of an encounter. For us, that's the primary principles that we use to format our responses to attacks.

Evade
Stun
Unbalance
Control

The tactic aspect of it the those things that we use to actually acomplish the strategy (or in this case, fulfill our principles). It is more than a list of movements. It is more of how those movements are successfully deployed.

For instacne, anyone can name a punch, however, using it in effective combination with others to create an opening which will allow it to do maximal damage is a tactic. It could be used in reference to defensive measures as well.

Ex.- now that you can throw a combination, it dosen't do much good if you can't integrate in either parrying or trapping or other such componant to keep yourself up and fighting to throw the combination effectively.

Excellent question. I'm looking forward to the responses.
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bushido_man96
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Styles: Taekwondo, Combat Hapkido, Aikido, GRACIE

PostPosted: Thu Dec 04, 2008 3:00 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

These are good ideas. I can honestly say that our school has never proferred anything like this. I like what I see so far, and see the value in coming up with something like it.

What I like about both examples is that they are short and sweet; only 4 parts each.
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bushido_man96
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 07, 2008 8:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sooooo.......

If I was looking into wanting to set up some kind of strategy like these listed for some self-defense concepts from my TKD training, how would you guys recommend I approach putting some tactical concepts together?
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tallgeese
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 07, 2008 10:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I sent in an article on just this subject that is still in the system .

Let me find it on my harddrive and I'll PM it to you. Might take a bit, my files are a bit all over the place.
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bushido_man96
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 08, 2008 1:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks, tallgeese. I'll read it over, and see what I can come up with when I get a chance.
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tonydee
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Joined: 21 Jun 2009
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Styles: 24 yrs kong soo do, 3 yrs hapkido, bits of others

PostPosted: Wed Jul 22, 2009 6:14 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I've been through this process a few times over the years, but perhaps enumerated things at a slightly different level.

By way of background, a strategy is an overarching vision of how to solve a problem, while a tactic is a specific action plan for achieving the strategy. So, tactics might indeed be "throat strike, kick the knee", while the strategies might be "attack different heights", "disrupt breathing", "strike vulnerable points", "deliver combinations", "after a technique with stun value, make a decisive strike" etc....

Just to give you a taste for this level of enumeration, and off the top of my head as my old documents aren't to hand (concentrating on the fighting phase of an encounter)...

- strategy A: encourage overcommitment, as it invariable creates counter-attacking opportunities
- strategy A1: encourage frustration/desparation:
- tactic A1.1: stay just out of reach
- tactic A1.2: if struck, hide consequences so opponent thinks they have to strike harder for it to be effective
- strategy A2: encourage over-confidence
- tactic A2.1: stay in/on striking range, but be consistently defensive (possibly only for a certain attack technique); if attacker relaxes monitoring for counter-attacks, deliver one
- tactic A2.2: disguise own skill level, physical or mental abilities/health, phychological preparedness/toughness/commitment
- strategy A3: exploit strongest defensive patterns
- tactic A3.1: feint your most often/nearly-successful attacks, knowing the defense might be over-committed
...

- strategy B: attack powerfully when opponent's stance limits mobility
- strategy B1: exploit their existing footwork habits
- tactic B1.1: if they habitually step one foot away before following with the other, momentarily creating an overly deep stance, then time an attack through their centre off mass for that intermediate position
- tactic B1.2: if they habitually pull one foot inwards before stepping out with the other, momentarily creating an overly shallow stance, then time an attack through their centre off mass for that intermediate position
- strategy B2: use grasping/limb-throwing blocks to pull them off balance and force them into an over-deep or shallow stance
- ...

- strategy C: overrotate joints
- tactic C1: wait until the opponent brings a joint to the edge of its range of motion during the "backswing" for a technique, then strike preemptively to over-rotate the joint (e.g. opponent turns torso away, back towards you, while preparing knife hand but continues to look at you... strike the "chest" side of their jaw to overrotate the neck)
- ...

Such lists can get very long, but I found years ago that in practice I can analyse my sparring sessions at the strategic level with a list of 10 or 15 core strategies. Tactics are too numerous to list exhaustively, but it's good to think about them sometimes, as conscious awareness of what one does, what one might do, which strategies they fall into, and how often they work is useful insight for fighting.

Cheers, Tony
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bushido_man96
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 23, 2009 11:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

tallgeese wrote:
I sent in an article on just this subject that is still in the system .

Let me find it on my harddrive and I'll PM it to you. Might take a bit, my files are a bit all over the place.


For anyone interested, here is a link to the article that tallgeese posted on the subject: Principle Based Martial Arts Training.

Be sure to give it a look; very good read.
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tallgeese
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 24, 2009 6:36 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks, bushido man.
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