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Higher Self
White Belt
Joined: 11 Mar 2018
Posts: 18
Location: Kansas
Styles: Kung Fu, Tae Kwon Do
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 Posted: Wed Mar 21, 2018 8:41 pm Post subject: |
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Thanks for the thoughts sensei8 and bushido_man96. I'm not sure if it will have a higher enrollment or not. I guess I personally feel like reality based self-defense might be a little more in demand than traditional MA, currently. Both are very valuable, of course, and there should be many self-defense applications within any MA system. However, my profession focuses on practical application so it is quite possible that I am just biased in that perception. That is the reason I am seeking perspective from the group in that regard. As you all eluded to, there is plenty of potential in both approaches I suppose. Thanks again for the feedback.
bushido_man96, I am also from KS. I noticed your username and wonder if you ever had a chance to study Bushidokan Karate under Steve Mackey. He was a pretty well known instructor around here.
Thanks again,
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http://Www.higher-self-martial-arts-health-wellness.com |
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OneKickWonder
Purple Belt
Joined: 17 Feb 2018
Posts: 513
Styles: Tang soo do
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| Posted: Thu Mar 22, 2018 1:59 am Post subject: |
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| Higher Self wrote: |
| there should be many self-defense applications within any MA system. , |
I think this might be a clue as to one of the reasons why people are starting to question the relevance of traditional martial arts in general.
There are of course many useful self defence tricks and principles in traditional arts. But it takes years to learn them to a sufficient standard for them to become really useful.
This is in my opinion a fault with the culture of how they are taught rather than the style itself. Especially in the west where we seem to favour quantity over quality.
When you can book onto a course for security guards where you'll learn physical intervention techniques within a few hours, it does beg the question why would we spend 5 years or so learning the same thing.
Of course traditional martial art has lots of other things to offer beyond self defence, and in my opinion, and obviously the opinions of others, that makes it worthwhile. But for someone who just wants to learn to handle themselves in a scrape, I suspect a lengthy and formal martial arts path may not be very appealing. |
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JR 137
Black Belt
Joined: 10 May 2015
Posts: 2442
Location: In the dojo
Styles: Seido Juku
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| Posted: Thu Mar 22, 2018 4:37 am Post subject: |
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| OneKickWonder wrote: |
| Higher Self wrote: |
| there should be many self-defense applications within any MA system. , |
I think this might be a clue as to one of the reasons why people are starting to question the relevance of traditional martial arts in general.
There are of course many useful self defence tricks and principles in traditional arts. But it takes years to learn them to a sufficient standard for them to become really useful.
This is in my opinion a fault with the culture of how they are taught rather than the style itself. Especially in the west where we seem to favour quantity over quality.
When you can book onto a course for security guards where you'll learn physical intervention techniques within a few hours, it does beg the question why would we spend 5 years or so learning the same thing.
Of course traditional martial art has lots of other things to offer beyond self defence, and in my opinion, and obviously the opinions of others, that makes it worthwhile. But for someone who just wants to learn to handle themselves in a scrape, I suspect a lengthy and formal martial arts path may not be very appealing. |
The his falls into what I was going to post...
Let’s just say the enrollment problem isn’t the teacher, business model, etc.; but the state of MA in his area. Will running a SD school really be a long term fix? How long term? Maybe I’m wrong, but overall I don’t see the people interested in SD being long term students. I think they’d be a lot of turnover. Pure SD doesn’t seem nearly as deep of a curriculum as traditional MA or even MMA does. It seems more like a quick fix in a sense.
This goes along with the business plan - how long does the CI expect to retain students for? How populated is the area? In a small area, he may not get as many students at one time, but they may be long term students who train for years. A SD school in this area might attract a lot of new students, but after a few cycles of turnover, who’s left? In a large metropolitan area, this isn’t an issue, in a small town with no metropolitan area within a reasonable drive distance (casual customers’ reasonable distance, not a dedicated student’s), it could be feast followed by a severe famine thing.
If the area can easily deal with high turnover, then no theoretical problem. If it can’t, he’ll be back to square one after the initial interest wanes.
I’ve never run any business, let alone a dojo, so take my post accordingly. |
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singularity6
Pre-Black Belt
Joined: 26 Jun 2017
Posts: 958
Location: Michigan
Styles: Jidokwan Taekwondo and Hapkido, Yoshokai Aikido, ZNIR Iaido, Kendo
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| Posted: Thu Mar 22, 2018 4:50 am Post subject: |
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There was a time when my wife and I were the only students in our location. Now, we have maybe 5-6 students showing up regularly, and occasionally we end up with about a dozen (several of our younger black belt students have school sports, new jobs, etc.)
Apparently this has been cyclic for as long as our master instructor could remember. He can recall times where students were wait-listing for a spot, and other times of minimal enrollment.
Again, I live in a small town, so getting new faces to show up can be tough.
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5th Geup Jidokwan Tae Kwon Do/Hap Ki Do
(Never officially tested in aikido, iaido or kendo) |
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sensei8
KF Sensei
Joined: 23 Feb 2008
Posts: 16430
Location: Las Vegas, NV
Styles: Shindokan Saitou-ryu [Shuri-te/Okinawa-te based]
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| Posted: Thu Mar 22, 2018 9:28 am Post subject: |
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Anyone wanting to start a business or change their market base [aka, re-invent themselves], imho, needs to completely understand the Business 101 maxim that says...
"whatever the market demands."
The technical jargon/definition:
"The aggregate of the demands of all potential customers (market participants) for a specific product over a specific period in a specific market."
Not what the mass of MAists THINK, or their OPINION about your idea concerning your proposed market base. Sure, weigh opinions, that's a solid approach, but in the end, you make the final decision. Do what makes YOU happy!!
I believe that your proposed market is viable across the board because demand is still high, generally speaking. Within 25-100 miles of your location, which KIND of self-defense is mostly the rage of the page for those communities?? Find that out, then it's the until-the-wheels-fall-off!!
Careful with pricing, though. Find the happy spot, and drive it...drive it hard!! To pricey one side or the other, or not pricey enough one side or the other will very quickly choke out the ever loving breath out of any business; that, right there, is a very fine line but it had better be quite visible from deep outer space.
Generally speaking, sure, you can just wing it or just do it!! However, anyone who does business with this mindset is akin to a car mechanic replacing one part after another part until the car's fixed. It's as paramount as a airplane pilot knowing how to fly; either you can or your can't...better know that before you take off.
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**Proof is on the floor!!! |
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Higher Self
White Belt
Joined: 11 Mar 2018
Posts: 18
Location: Kansas
Styles: Kung Fu, Tae Kwon Do
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bushido_man96
KF Sensei
Joined: 31 Mar 2006
Posts: 30188
Location: Hays, KS
Styles: Taekwondo, Combat Hapkido, Aikido, GRACIE, Police Krav Maga, SPEAR
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| Posted: Sun Apr 01, 2018 6:02 pm Post subject: |
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| Higher Self wrote: |
bushido_man96, I am also from KS. I noticed your username and wonder if you ever had a chance to study Bushidokan Karate under Steve Mackey. He was a pretty well known instructor around here.
Thanks again, |
Higher Self, I have not ever trained with Steve Mackey, or under Bushidokan Karate. Where is he located at? Topeka or Wichita area? I live in Hays, more towards central/western KS. Where are you from?
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http://www.sunyis.com/
www.aikidoofnorthwestkansas.com |
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Higher Self
White Belt
Joined: 11 Mar 2018
Posts: 18
Location: Kansas
Styles: Kung Fu, Tae Kwon Do
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bushido_man96
KF Sensei
Joined: 31 Mar 2006
Posts: 30188
Location: Hays, KS
Styles: Taekwondo, Combat Hapkido, Aikido, GRACIE, Police Krav Maga, SPEAR
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| Posted: Wed Apr 04, 2018 6:51 pm Post subject: |
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| Higher Self wrote: |
| bushido_man96 he used to be in Overland Park, KS, which is in Johnson County, just a short drive from the plaza in KCMO if you are familiar with that area. I have to admit it has been quite a few years, so I'm not sure if he is still actively teaching anymore. |
I see. I only get to the KC area once every few years, so I'm not familiar with instructors in the area.
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http://www.sunyis.com/
www.aikidoofnorthwestkansas.com |
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Hoshin
Yellow Belt
Joined: 11 Apr 2018
Posts: 32
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| Posted: Thu Apr 12, 2018 10:31 am Post subject: |
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i believe there is a market for pure self defense or scenario training. the issue with karate is that its been in the US for almost 70 years now and over all it hasnt changed at all over that time. the major changes have been for the worse with the commercial mcdojo type schools. while these schools may have their place and fill a need they have flooded the market. the market has changed. what people find interesting has changed. i know a few schools in my area that are run in an identical way as things were run back in the 1980's. the feel and look of the school is very dated. as a consequence their enrollment is dismal. like it or not people care about perception and image. typical karate is passe. it doesnt have the mystical image it had back in the 1960's and 70's. MMA has a much more popular image, thus it fills the enrollment. but MMA is waning due to its limitations or image as a sport. so whats next?
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A handful of men, inured to war, proceed to certain victory, while on the contrary numerous armies of raw and undisciplined troops are but multitudes of men dragged to slaughter.
-Flavius Renatus Vegetius- |
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on the post.
