Add KarateForums.com
tallgeese Celebrates 10 Years as a Moderator!
Username:    Password:
Remember Me?    
   I Lost My Password!
Post new topic   Reply to topic    KarateForums.com Forum Index -> Strategies and Tactics
Goto page 1, 2  Next
 See a User Guidelines violation? Press on the post.
Author Message

Alan Armstrong
Black Belt
Black Belt

Joined: 28 Feb 2016
Posts: 2128


PostPosted: Tue Jan 02, 2018 2:39 pm    Post subject: To Crush Reply with quote

This means to crush the enemy regarding him as being weak.

If we crush lightly, he may recover.

You must learn the spirit of crushing as if with a hand grip.

In single combat, if the enemy is less skilful than yourself, if his rhythm is disorganized, or if he has fallen into evasive or retreating attitudes, we must crush him straightaway, with no concern for his presence and without allowing him space for breath.

It is essential to crush him all at once.

The primary thing is not to let him recover his position even a little-Miyamoto Musashi

How do you feel about crushing your enemies?

Crushing enemies, perhaps for this day and age, is considered to be an overly aggressive attitude, is it possible to keep this only in mind but not in practice as martial artists?
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail

MatsuShinshii
Black Belt
Black Belt

Joined: 15 Aug 2016
Posts: 1423
Location: Kentucky
Styles: Machimura Suidi Rokudan, Ryukyu Kenpo, Kobudo, Judo

PostPosted: Tue Jan 02, 2018 4:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm not quite sure how to address this post.

First and foremost I doubt most members hold this ideal or would agree with it.

If and when a person attacks it is in my mind to deal with the person quickly and efficiently with minimal damage to both myself and my attacker. The object is to neutralize the threat with the force the situation calls for. Not all situations call for maximum deadly force.

Crush them????

I find no joy in doing what sometimes must be done. If, in your example of a weaker opponent, I were to crush them, what does that say about me or about all MA'ists?

Why would you "crush" someone that barely poses a threat? This type of opponent would be controlled or made to submit but crushing them... EGO much?

IMHO someone that would look to fight a weaker opponent is weak themselves. Would it be right for a Sandan to "crush" a Hachikyu? What exactly does that prove? Do we not achieve the goal by controlling someone that may not have enough sense to realize they are out matched rather than destroying them?

Don't get me wrong, I would have no problem, and haven't, doing serious damage IF the situation warranted it. But this premise of crushing ones opponents no matter the situation to me shows a misunderstanding of what the arts are about. Unless your in combat in some foreign country there is no need to "crush" your opponents.

Depending on the situation you will have several options to defeat your opponent, most without even coming to blows. I can only see the most extreme situations where crushing ones opponent would come into play.
_________________
The person who succeeds is not the one who holds back, fearing failure, nor the one who never fails-but the one who moves on in spite of failure.
Charles R. Swindoll
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message

Alan Armstrong
Black Belt
Black Belt

Joined: 28 Feb 2016
Posts: 2128


PostPosted: Tue Jan 02, 2018 4:30 pm    Post subject: Re: To Crush Reply with quote

Alan Armstrong wrote:
This means to crush the enemy regarding him as being weak.

If we crush lightly, he may recover.

You must learn the spirit of crushing as if with a hand grip.

In single combat, if the enemy is less skilful than yourself, if his rhythm is disorganized, or if he has fallen into evasive or retreating attitudes, we must crush him straightaway, with no concern for his presence and without allowing him space for breath.

It is essential to crush him all at once.

The primary thing is not to let him recover his position even a little-Miyamoto Musashi


(These are Miyamoto Musashi's words not mine)
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail

MatsuShinshii
Black Belt
Black Belt

Joined: 15 Aug 2016
Posts: 1423
Location: Kentucky
Styles: Machimura Suidi Rokudan, Ryukyu Kenpo, Kobudo, Judo

PostPosted: Tue Jan 02, 2018 6:05 pm    Post subject: Re: To Crush Reply with quote

Alan Armstrong wrote:
Alan Armstrong wrote:
This means to crush the enemy regarding him as being weak.

If we crush lightly, he may recover.

You must learn the spirit of crushing as if with a hand grip.

In single combat, if the enemy is less skilful than yourself, if his rhythm is disorganized, or if he has fallen into evasive or retreating attitudes, we must crush him straightaway, with no concern for his presence and without allowing him space for breath.

It is essential to crush him all at once.

The primary thing is not to let him recover his position even a little-Miyamoto Musashi


(These are Miyamoto Musashi's words not mine)


I figured that out after I read one of your other recent posts.
_________________
The person who succeeds is not the one who holds back, fearing failure, nor the one who never fails-but the one who moves on in spite of failure.
Charles R. Swindoll
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message

singularity6
Pre-Black Belt
Pre-Black Belt

Joined: 26 Jun 2017
Posts: 958
Location: Michigan
Styles: Jidokwan Taekwondo and Hapkido, Yoshokai Aikido, ZNIR Iaido, Kendo

PostPosted: Tue Jan 02, 2018 8:32 pm    Post subject: Re: To Crush Reply with quote

Alan Armstrong wrote:
Alan Armstrong wrote:
This means to crush the enemy regarding him as being weak.

If we crush lightly, he may recover.

You must learn the spirit of crushing as if with a hand grip.

In single combat, if the enemy is less skilful than yourself, if his rhythm is disorganized, or if he has fallen into evasive or retreating attitudes, we must crush him straightaway, with no concern for his presence and without allowing him space for breath.

It is essential to crush him all at once.

The primary thing is not to let him recover his position even a little-Miyamoto Musashi


(These are Miyamoto Musashi's words not mine)


It's a best-practice to quote the person who originally wrote the phrase. This saves a lot of confusion.
_________________
5th Geup Jidokwan Tae Kwon Do/Hap Ki Do

(Never officially tested in aikido, iaido or kendo)
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message

Alan Armstrong
Black Belt
Black Belt

Joined: 28 Feb 2016
Posts: 2128


PostPosted: Wed Jan 03, 2018 8:08 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

singularity6 wrote:
Alan Armstrong wrote:
Alan Armstrong wrote:
This means to crush the enemy regarding him as being weak.

If we crush lightly, he may recover.

You must learn the spirit of crushing as if with a hand grip.

In single combat, if the enemy is less skilful than yourself, if his rhythm is disorganized, or if he has fallen into evasive or retreating attitudes, we must crush him straightaway, with no concern for his presence and without allowing him space for breath.

It is essential to crush him all at once.

The primary thing is not to let him recover his position even a little-Miyamoto Musashi


(These are Miyamoto Musashi's words not mine)


It's a best-practice to quote the person who originally wrote the phrase. This saves a lot of confusion.
It was quoted to Miyamoto Musashi; as plain as day.

But if you (singularity6) have a preferable way of making quotes more easily identifiable, then please feel free to share how it is to be done.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail

MatsuShinshii
Black Belt
Black Belt

Joined: 15 Aug 2016
Posts: 1423
Location: Kentucky
Styles: Machimura Suidi Rokudan, Ryukyu Kenpo, Kobudo, Judo

PostPosted: Wed Jan 03, 2018 3:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I too did not pick up on the fact that you were quoting Musashi until I read the next post "To throw into confusion" and realized what you were doing. Once I saw the other post titles it was pretty clear though.
_________________
The person who succeeds is not the one who holds back, fearing failure, nor the one who never fails-but the one who moves on in spite of failure.
Charles R. Swindoll
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message

singularity6
Pre-Black Belt
Pre-Black Belt

Joined: 26 Jun 2017
Posts: 958
Location: Michigan
Styles: Jidokwan Taekwondo and Hapkido, Yoshokai Aikido, ZNIR Iaido, Kendo

PostPosted: Wed Jan 03, 2018 4:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Alan Armstrong wrote:
singularity6 wrote:
Alan Armstrong wrote:
Alan Armstrong wrote:
This means to crush the enemy regarding him as being weak.

If we crush lightly, he may recover.

You must learn the spirit of crushing as if with a hand grip.

In single combat, if the enemy is less skilful than yourself, if his rhythm is disorganized, or if he has fallen into evasive or retreating attitudes, we must crush him straightaway, with no concern for his presence and without allowing him space for breath.

It is essential to crush him all at once.

The primary thing is not to let him recover his position even a little-Miyamoto Musashi


(These are Miyamoto Musashi's words not mine)


It's a best-practice to quote the person who originally wrote the phrase. This saves a lot of confusion.
It was quoted to Miyamoto Musashi; as plain as day.

But if you (singularity6) have a preferable way of making quotes more easily identifiable, then please feel free to share how it is to be done.


I would have ended the post by stating the author's name.

"~Miyamoto Musashi" as the last line is fairly typical.
_________________
5th Geup Jidokwan Tae Kwon Do/Hap Ki Do

(Never officially tested in aikido, iaido or kendo)
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message

MatsuShinshii
Black Belt
Black Belt

Joined: 15 Aug 2016
Posts: 1423
Location: Kentucky
Styles: Machimura Suidi Rokudan, Ryukyu Kenpo, Kobudo, Judo

PostPosted: Wed Jan 03, 2018 4:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Good point. That would be proper.
_________________
The person who succeeds is not the one who holds back, fearing failure, nor the one who never fails-but the one who moves on in spite of failure.
Charles R. Swindoll
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message

bushido_man96
KF Sensei
KF Sensei

Joined: 31 Mar 2006
Posts: 27636
Location: Hays, KS
Styles: Taekwondo, Combat Hapkido, Aikido, GRACIE

PostPosted: Wed Jan 03, 2018 9:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Musashi was a duelist. When he fought, he was always fighting to the death. So for him, yes, it was a good thing.

Today, I think this strategy still holds value, but we have to keep it in context. When it comes to self-defense, one shouldn't dally around. Yes, come in hard, and finish it quickly. A former friend of mine was quite fond using a line of questioning when it comes to using force:

"How hard did you hit my client?"

"I hit him as hard as I could."

"Why did you hit him so hard?"

"So I didn't have to hit him again."

It makes sense to me, and I use this thought process myself.
_________________
www.haysgym.com
http://www.sunyis.com/
www.aikidoofnorthwestkansas.com
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic   Reply to topic    KarateForums.com Forum Index -> Strategies and Tactics All times are GMT - 6 Hours
Goto page 1, 2  Next
Page 1 of 2
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum


< Advertising - Contact - Disclosure Policy - Staff - User Guidelines >