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RW
Blue Belt
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Joined: 07 Mar 2009
Posts: 344


PostPosted: Fri Apr 17, 2020 6:48 pm    Post subject: Video training in COVID times, is it worth it? Reply with quote

So my school has always had an... interesting model, where there are group classes (your regular classes, like in any other dojo) and then every student gets a personal lesson a week just him/her and the instructor.

With COVID most students have left the dojo I go to, but they're using video streaming classes now to try to retain students. It's a really silly concept, it's like WEEEEEE LET'S ALL DO PUSH UPS FROM OUR HOMES! WEEEEE! NOW LET'S DO CRUNCHES!!!!

I actually had to stop going to class BEFORE the virus, so I was never in a "just keep paying to the school despite the virus to support them", I had already suspended my membership before all this.

I have been considering going back to the school, just to help them out. I don't intend to do the stupid WEEEE! CALISTHENICS FROM WORK EVERYONE!!! stuff, it's just too silly. Plus I can do calisthenics from home on my own, anyway.

But my personal lesson, that's an interesting concept. I don't really have the space, but I could try moving a couple things and turning my computer's webcam on and try to learn new kata from my sensei, virtually. In theory this sounds.... doable?

What do you think? Would you do this?
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sensei8
KF Sensei
KF Sensei

Joined: 23 Feb 2008
Posts: 14807
Location: Houston, TX
Styles: Shindokan Saitou-ryu [Shuri-te/Okinawa-te based]

PostPosted: Fri Apr 17, 2020 10:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

While I'm not a great supporter and/or fan of LiveStream training and the like, I've warmed up to this one conclusion....

Any training is better than no training, but only if it's quality training, and not just a disjointed gathering.

Danielle, has had great success with how her and her students conduct classes and the like...

https://www.karateforums.com/covid-19-coronavirus-vt52948-20.html



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Last edited by sensei8 on Sat Apr 18, 2020 3:06 pm; edited 1 time in total
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RW
Blue Belt
Blue Belt

Joined: 07 Mar 2009
Posts: 344


PostPosted: Sat Apr 18, 2020 9:06 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

sensei8 wrote:
While I'm not a great supporter and/or fan of LiveStream training and the like, I've warmed up to this one conclusion....

Any training is better than no training, but only if it's quality training, and not just a disjointed gathering.

Danielle, has had great success with how her and her students conduct classes and the like...

https://www.karateforums.com/covid-19-coronavirus-vt52948-20.html




Great feedback!

Do you think you could teach a student a new kata over video?

I know this is usually a bad idea, I'd never think about it, but these COVID times are a (temporary) game changer.

I am wondering whether to go for it or whether I'd just be wasting my money
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sensei8
KF Sensei
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Joined: 23 Feb 2008
Posts: 14807
Location: Houston, TX
Styles: Shindokan Saitou-ryu [Shuri-te/Okinawa-te based]

PostPosted: Sat Apr 18, 2020 3:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

RW wrote:
sensei8 wrote:
While I'm not a great supporter and/or fan of LiveStream training and the like, I've warmed up to this one conclusion....

Any training is better than no training, but only if it's quality training, and not just a disjointed gathering.

Danielle, has had great success with how her and her students conduct classes and the like...

https://www.karateforums.com/covid-19-coronavirus-vt52948-20.html




Great feedback!

Do you think you could teach a student a new kata over video?

I know this is usually a bad idea, I'd never think about it, but these COVID times are a (temporary) game changer.

I am wondering whether to go for it or whether I'd just be wasting my money

To the above bold type...

Yes; as a LiveStream, like Skype. As long as I can see said student, and I can provide immediate feedback, and said student will make any and all suggested corrections/feedback, and so on and so forth.

I believe that if the instructor CAN teach, then no matter the venue, the student can greatly benefit from any given venue.

Still, I'm not a staunch proponent of this type of teaching model; face to face is my preferred choice.




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Last edited by sensei8 on Sun Apr 19, 2020 11:24 am; edited 1 time in total
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Spartacus Maximus
Black Belt
Black Belt

Joined: 01 Jun 2014
Posts: 1765

Styles: Shorin ryu

PostPosted: Sun Apr 19, 2020 8:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Alll thins panicking and fearmongering seems incredibly stupid. Since when is training and practising at home and outside the dojo a novel idea? Anyone who is serious about staying fit and maintaining their level of proficiency regardless of whether or not the dojo/school is operating ought to be doing something, a anything on their own time. Come Hell or highwater. Virus or no virus. No matter how bad it gets, no crisis lasts forever. The more one does to maintain thier level of health, wellbeing and skill, there easier it will be when things eventually get back to normal. And they WILL.
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Wado Heretic
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Joined: 23 May 2014
Posts: 412
Location: United Kingdom, England, Shropshire
Styles: Wado-Ryu , Kobayashi Shorin-Ryu (Kodokan), RyuKyu Kobojutsu

PostPosted: Sun Apr 19, 2020 8:45 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have always helped students plan home training models if they have asked. I generally include home training ideas in my student handbooks. I do have stratified strength and cardio goals for each grade as well for people to work towards. Knowledge is what really matters, and I do not expect an 18-year-old and 50-year-old to have comparable fitness goals, however, conditioning is a part of effective martial arts.

I have used video training for a number of years with select students. Primarily those who have trained with me yet have to move away but want to continue training. Thus, they have a strong foundation in physical in-person training prior to transitioning to video-based training. I also run a couple of residential courses a year during bank-holidays which I invite them to at a discount, and let them stay with me if they need. I also have an expectation that they make a point of coming to train when they are in the area. Ultimately, the video training is to help them work on things I have started them on in person: refining kata, or working on certain movement drills.

I do not see much point in using video sessions for rote moments or exercise. I expect people to do a lot of that in their own time. On the dojo floor, I believe in having people doing partner work or learning something new. Refinement by repetition, and improvement through conditioning, can be done in your own time.

I have been experimenting with releasing short videos on drills to do at home for my students. I have carried on running my private video lessons, and have expanded them to include my usual in-person students, but I have not tried classes. I have tried a few group sessions with students who live together or students who are happy to share time, but one-to-one seems optimum to me.

Some guidance from instructors is useful in this time, and for those people that benefit from being directed on how to train, it can be an invaluable resource. It is also important from a business perspective to keep interacting with your students for retention purposes.
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DWx
KF Sensei
KF Sensei

Joined: 17 Jan 2007
Posts: 6214
Location: UK
Styles: Tae Kwon Do & Yang family Tai Chi

PostPosted: Sun Apr 19, 2020 3:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Don't write it off before you try it.

In the past I was skeptical about such an approach but I've now been doing online classes for three weeks. It won't ever replace normal class and you can't expect the same level of results from it but it is better than nothing and you would be surprised what you can accomplish. I've been doing Fundamentals (with verbal correction), sections from our forms, sparring combos and general fitness and flexibility. Doing sit ups and push ups to an online video is not really that different from being told to do it in class and I know I push myself harder when others are working hard too.

If you want to see what I've been doing: https://www.facebook.com/NuneatonTKD/videos/255321625503182/

Since then we've had guest instructors from other schools come online and teach, and had a yoga teacher come do a regular Friday slot.

I'm doing it for a number of reasons:

1. Maintain my community - a very small percentage of my students come to me for self-defence, most of my students (children) are with me to improve confidence, because they're being bullied, because they more focus and self-discipline... I can keep that going via video and ensure that my students feel like they are still connected to me and each other. They love it. Both adult and junior students spend time before and after class chatting with each other. A lot of people here in the UK are not leaving the house except for grocery shopping and this is a chance for them to connect with someone else.

2. Business - following on from the above, if I maintain the sense of community, I maintain how many students want to pay to learn from me.
I'm not in this to make money but equally I'm not doing this for charity. When this is over and we go back to normal, I don't want to start from scratch and have to recruit students all over again. I have a relatively new school (started in Sept 2018) so most of my students are beginners and not seasoned blackbelts. I want to make sure as many as possible come back and this is one way of making sure that they will do.

3. Maintain existing skills - I know I'm going to have limited success teaching something new (though I did manage to teach everyone the first half of Moon Moo last week, even the white belts), but I can try to keep everyone on the ball with their current skills. Particularly the children who need more guidance on what and how to practice. I can also keep teaching general concepts and teaching movement patterns for sparring.


And if I'm honest, there's personal benefits too. It totally makes my week when I get to see and connect with all my students. I get six year olds showing me the drawing they did that day and adults telling me how they look forward to forgetting about everything and just training for an hour.
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RW
Blue Belt
Blue Belt

Joined: 07 Mar 2009
Posts: 344


PostPosted: Sun Apr 19, 2020 5:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

sensei8 wrote:
RW wrote:
sensei8 wrote:
While I'm not a great supporter and/or fan of LiveStream training and the like, I've warmed up to this one conclusion....

Any training is better than no training, but only if it's quality training, and not just a disjointed gathering.

Danielle, has had great success with how her and her students conduct classes and the like...

https://www.karateforums.com/covid-19-coronavirus-vt52948-20.html




Great feedback!

Do you think you could teach a student a new kata over video?

I know this is usually a bad idea, I'd never think about it, but these COVID times are a (temporary) game changer.

I am wondering whether to go for it or whether I'd just be wasting my money

To the above bold type...

Yes; as a LiveStream, like Skype. As long as I can see said student, and I can provide immediate feedback, and said student will make any and all suggested corrections/feedback, and so on and so forth.

I believe that if the instructor CAN teach, then no matter the venue, the student can greatly benefit from any given venue.

Still, I'm not a staunch proponent of this type of teaching model; face to face is my preferred choice.





absolutely. I'd only recur to this to support my dojo and keep paying my fee but still getting something out of it
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RW
Blue Belt
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Joined: 07 Mar 2009
Posts: 344


PostPosted: Sun Apr 19, 2020 5:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Spartacus Maximus wrote:
Alll thins panicking and fearmongering seems incredibly stupid. Since when is training and practising at home and outside the dojo a novel idea? Anyone who is serious about staying fit and maintaining their level of proficiency regardless of whether or not the dojo/school is operating ought to be doing something, a anything on their own time. Come Hell or highwater. Virus or no virus. No matter how bad it gets, no crisis lasts forever. The more one does to maintain thier level of health, wellbeing and skill, there easier it will be when things eventually get back to normal. And they WILL.


hahaha someone is on edge!!!

No, I am doing it to support my dojo. I can practice on my own. And I do practice on my own. My dojo is closed right now because of state "stay at home' regulations in effect, and they are trying to still get some fees by using video training. I am curious as to whether give it a shot.

I don't get why you're so upset at this. May I suggest you do some makiwara training until your anger is purged?
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RW
Blue Belt
Blue Belt

Joined: 07 Mar 2009
Posts: 344


PostPosted: Sun Apr 19, 2020 5:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

DWx wrote:
Don't write it off before you try it.

In the past I was skeptical about such an approach but I've now been doing online classes for three weeks. It won't ever replace normal class and you can't expect the same level of results from it but it is better than nothing and you would be surprised what you can accomplish. I've been doing Fundamentals (with verbal correction), sections from our forms, sparring combos and general fitness and flexibility. Doing sit ups and push ups to an online video is not really that different from being told to do it in class and I know I push myself harder when others are working hard too.

If you want to see what I've been doing: https://www.facebook.com/NuneatonTKD/videos/255321625503182/

Since then we've had guest instructors from other schools come online and teach, and had a yoga teacher come do a regular Friday slot.

I'm doing it for a number of reasons:

1. Maintain my community - a very small percentage of my students come to me for self-defence, most of my students (children) are with me to improve confidence, because they're being bullied, because they more focus and self-discipline... I can keep that going via video and ensure that my students feel like they are still connected to me and each other. They love it. Both adult and junior students spend time before and after class chatting with each other. A lot of people here in the UK are not leaving the house except for grocery shopping and this is a chance for them to connect with someone else.

2. Business - following on from the above, if I maintain the sense of community, I maintain how many students want to pay to learn from me.
I'm not in this to make money but equally I'm not doing this for charity. When this is over and we go back to normal, I don't want to start from scratch and have to recruit students all over again. I have a relatively new school (started in Sept 2018) so most of my students are beginners and not seasoned blackbelts. I want to make sure as many as possible come back and this is one way of making sure that they will do.

3. Maintain existing skills - I know I'm going to have limited success teaching something new (though I did manage to teach everyone the first half of Moon Moo last week, even the white belts), but I can try to keep everyone on the ball with their current skills. Particularly the children who need more guidance on what and how to practice. I can also keep teaching general concepts and teaching movement patterns for sparring.


And if I'm honest, there's personal benefits too. It totally makes my week when I get to see and connect with all my students. I get six year olds showing me the drawing they did that day and adults telling me how they look forward to forgetting about everything and just training for an hour.


Thanks!!!! My decision is made, I appreciate the input
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