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Prototype
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 23, 2018 3:41 pm    Post subject: What are good physical attributes to have in BJJ? Reply with quote

Name a few for the uninitiated. It seems less reliant upon explosiveness and strength like wrestling, since many laser sharp masters are rather skinny. And BJJ guys are excellent in defensive positions.
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Tempest
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 23, 2018 3:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

https://www.karateforums.com/questions-to-be-a-grappler-vt50883.html

I actually answer this question in my reply to this post.
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Prototype
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 24, 2018 1:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Tempest wrote:
https://www.karateforums.com/questions-to-be-a-grappler-vt50883.html

I actually answer this question in my reply to this post.


Where did you answer my question? You wrote what is not required, I asked what is. What is the common denominator between elite level grapplers. Is is it visuospatial intelligence? Strong grips?

I can barely find out of a building I just entered, so if it's spatial intelligence, It's not for me.
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TJ-Jitsu
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 24, 2018 4:39 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Prototype wrote:
Tempest wrote:
https://www.karateforums.com/questions-to-be-a-grappler-vt50883.html

I actually answer this question in my reply to this post.


Where did you answer my question? You wrote what is not required, I asked what is. What is the common denominator between elite level grapplers. Is is it visuospatial intelligence? Strong grips?

I can barely find out of a building I just entered, so if it's spatial intelligence, It's not for me.


Requirements? Be human- seriously.

So what makes an elite level grappler? This is a relative statement. Some people have a little bit of technical knowledge, but a great amount of athleticism. These are your guys that are incredibly athletic and with a little knowledge can go a far way.

Then you've got guys that are really technical and have an amazing understanding of the game and what they're trying to accomplish. These are your technicians.

The less you have of one the more you'll need of the other.

Intelligence strong grips

In my experience high level grapplers tend to be very familiar with what they use (often arent we all?) but limited in their knowledge of what they dont know. Ive seen BJJ world champions that hip escape like a blue belt. IMO
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Tempest
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Styles: Judo, HEMA

PostPosted: Tue Apr 24, 2018 9:00 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Realistically I named a bunch of attributes you DON't need but said it helps if you have them.

The only thing you NEED is to be able to get on the mats. The more of some attributes you have, the less you need of others.

My experience is that the single biggest difference maker is strength. The more strength you possess relative to your size, the better you will do most of the time. But this is true of all fighting arts, if for no other reason than strength relative to size is GREAT injury prevention. Extra muscle mass shields joints and makes moving under load easier. Allows you to train longer and harder with less recovery time. And, when you are new and don't know what you are doing, allows you to do better against other newbies that don't know anything and so you feel better about training and keep showing up. Which is actually the number 1 key to success. Keep showing up and training.

You want to know what makes a world champion on the mats? Look at their training schedules and diet. It is as intense and restrictive as any professional athlete. Top level instruction, time on the mats, and the training schedule and diet of a professional athlete. And the last piece of course. The will to win.
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Prototype
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 25, 2018 1:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Tempest wrote:
Realistically I named a bunch of attributes you DON't need but said it helps if you have them.

The only thing you NEED is to be able to get on the mats. The more of some attributes you have, the less you need of others.

My experience is that the single biggest difference maker is strength. The more strength you possess relative to your size, the better you will do most of the time. But this is true of all fighting arts, if for no other reason than strength relative to size is GREAT injury prevention. Extra muscle mass shields joints and makes moving under load easier. Allows you to train longer and harder with less recovery time. And, when you are new and don't know what you are doing, allows you to do better against other newbies that don't know anything and so you feel better about training and keep showing up. Which is actually the number 1 key to success. Keep showing up and training.

You want to know what makes a world champion on the mats? Look at their training schedules and diet. It is as intense and restrictive as any professional athlete. Top level instruction, time on the mats, and the training schedule and diet of a professional athlete. And the last piece of course. The will to win.


I don't think strength is important to striking like boxing. Two of the greatest boxers who ever lived - Ali and Mayweather jr were both finesse boxers
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Tempest
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Styles: Judo, HEMA

PostPosted: Wed Apr 25, 2018 2:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Prototype wrote:
Tempest wrote:
Realistically I named a bunch of attributes you DON't need but said it helps if you have them.

The only thing you NEED is to be able to get on the mats. The more of some attributes you have, the less you need of others.

My experience is that the single biggest difference maker is strength. The more strength you possess relative to your size, the better you will do most of the time. But this is true of all fighting arts, if for no other reason than strength relative to size is GREAT injury prevention. Extra muscle mass shields joints and makes moving under load easier. Allows you to train longer and harder with less recovery time. And, when you are new and don't know what you are doing, allows you to do better against other newbies that don't know anything and so you feel better about training and keep showing up. Which is actually the number 1 key to success. Keep showing up and training.

You want to know what makes a world champion on the mats? Look at their training schedules and diet. It is as intense and restrictive as any professional athlete. Top level instruction, time on the mats, and the training schedule and diet of a professional athlete. And the last piece of course. The will to win.


I don't think strength is important to striking like boxing. Two of the greatest boxers who ever lived - Ali and Mayweather jr were both finesse boxers


Ehh... strength in this context is more power to weight ratio. Ali was INCREDIBLY strong for his size. So is Mayweather Jr. Adding strength without adding size at their level is, in fact, an entire subset of the fitness industry; and how we learned about things like muscular cross sectional area being the primary mechanical measurement of power, but neuro-muscular recruitment tends to be the primary driver of performance in strength related tasks.

Taken together, they (recruitment and cross-sectional area) are the primary determining factors of musculoskeletal strength.

That, combined with the square/cube law is why adding size to add strength for combat sports only works up to a certain point.
Being stronger is ALWAYS better but being BIGGER is NOT always better. Finding that sweet spot where you optimize your strength for the amount of weight you are carrying is the key to determining what your weight class should be competitively.
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bushido_man96
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 25, 2018 7:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think the "weight class" fighters tend to a deceptive example. Those guys usually walk around at least 10 lbs heavier than they fight at (if not more). So yeah, a guy like McGregor is strong for his size, but we are deceived by his size because he walks around at a heavier weight than he fights at.
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Tempest
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Location: Tulsa, OK
Styles: Judo, HEMA

PostPosted: Thu Apr 26, 2018 8:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

bushido_man96 wrote:
I think the "weight class" fighters tend to a deceptive example. Those guys usually walk around at least 10 lbs heavier than they fight at (if not more). So yeah, a guy like McGregor is strong for his size, but we are deceived by his size because he walks around at a heavier weight than he fights at.


Sorta. Most of these guys walk around even more than that. THey actually have 4 different weights.

Walking around weight
In camp weight
Weigh-in weight
In the ring weight.

And all 4 are very different numbers. However, it tends to cancel out even so. For example, Conor McGregor fights at 155 in the UFC. In IBJJF he probably competes closer to his "in camp" weight. Likely around 163-167 depending on gi/no-gi.

But your "walking around" weight tends to include a lot of water and fat from not dieting and other things that don't really help you be stronger as a fighter. And even at 163 he is a BEAST.
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tallgeese
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Joined: 04 May 2008
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Styles: Brazilian Jiu Jitsu, Bujin Bugei Jutsu, Gokei Ryu Kempo Jutsu, MMA, Shootfighting, boxing, kickboxing, JKD, Pekiti Tersia Kali

PostPosted: Thu Apr 26, 2018 8:43 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm with the "be human" group. We get wrapped up in what makes a better player for any art. Physical attributes help in any physical endeavor. But the ability to get on the mat over and over again is the only true defining feature.

To get into other develop is to delve into the competitive side of the art, which is a valid outlet, but far different from why a bulk of practitioners practice.

You'll develop the attributes you need at a base level by doing it.
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