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mirkoinbrazil
White Belt
White Belt

Joined: 06 Oct 2018
Posts: 9


PostPosted: Sat Oct 06, 2018 11:33 am    Post subject: Would you train with someone who started their own style? Reply with quote

Sometimes I come across schools started by someone teaching their own style or a recently created style. I've been around the block (in my opinion) enough to know if the stuff being taught is useful and correct, which this one seems to be that I enjoy going to now. It's basically a backyard version of kyokushin or shotokan in my opinion. I suppose the instructor got trained in some style for a while before starting his own, but i've never seen a guest from the old class or heard of the style outside my town. But i like the instruction and fellowship at this place.

Is it possible to train in a style that's not nationally recognized and may be taught by someone who didn't actually get a black belt but was very good, and still feel proud to be there?

Thanks guys,,,
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sensei8
KF Sensei
KF Sensei

Joined: 23 Feb 2008
Posts: 14183
Location: Houston, TX
Styles: Shindokan Saitou-ryu [Shuri-te/Okinawa-te based]

PostPosted: Sat Oct 06, 2018 8:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Welcome to KF, mirkoinbrazil; glad that you're here!!

Quote:
Is it possible to train in a style that's not nationally recognized and may be taught by someone who didn't actually get a black belt but was very good, and still feel proud to be there?

Sure it is!! After all, the MA journey is YOURS, and YOURS alone!!

The proof is on the floor!!

Now, if rank and the like are more important, and/or if being recognized and/or accepted within the MA communities of your desire, than my answer is an unequivocal no.

Imho!!




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**Proof is on the floor!!!
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singularity6
Pre-Black Belt
Pre-Black Belt

Joined: 26 Jun 2017
Posts: 958
Location: Michigan
Styles: Jidokwan Taekwondo and Hapkido, Yoshokai Aikido, ZNIR Iaido, Kendo

PostPosted: Sun Oct 07, 2018 7:07 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Martial Arts ranks are a lot like college degrees, in my opinion. Both can take a long time and a lot of work to earn. Just because someone has earned a degree or a certain rank, doesn't necessarily make them an expert. Likewise, another person's lack of a degree or rank doesn't make them not an expert.

I agree with Sensei8's "the proof is on the floor" 100% in these cases.
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5th Geup Jidokwan Tae Kwon Do/Hap Ki Do

(Never officially tested in aikido, iaido or kendo)
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sensei8
KF Sensei
KF Sensei

Joined: 23 Feb 2008
Posts: 14183
Location: Houston, TX
Styles: Shindokan Saitou-ryu [Shuri-te/Okinawa-te based]

PostPosted: Sun Oct 07, 2018 9:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

If what said instructor of the new found MA style meets your expectations, albeit its effectiveness across the board, as well as your MA betterment, than anything else is of no greater importance than those.

Imho!!




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JR 137
KF Sempai
KF Sempai

Joined: 10 May 2015
Posts: 2277
Location: In the dojo
Styles: Seido Juku

PostPosted: Sun Oct 07, 2018 9:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Every style and organization was started by someone at some point. Before Goju Ryu became Goju Ryu, it was some guy named Chojun Miyagi teaching a few guys in his backyard. Before Kyokushin became Kyokushin, it was some guy named Mas Oyama teaching a group of guys in a dilapidated room. I could go on and on, but I think you get the point.

On the other hand, there’s been countless people who’ve started their own group and have never been heard from since.

There are certainly benefits to being in a large organization. The benefit of people recognizing your rank and legitimacy by association can be there, but they’re really not the most important benefits IMO.

There are pros and cons to being a part of an organization and being independent. Neither one inherently legitimizes the training. The only person who needs to see the training and everything associated with it is you. If it’s a great fit for you, train. If not, look elsewhere. When you’re on the floor doing your thing, the patches on the gi and the sign outside (if there is one) are all insignificant.

To quote a guy I highly respect, “the proof is on the floor.”
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mirkoinbrazil
White Belt
White Belt

Joined: 06 Oct 2018
Posts: 9


PostPosted: Sun Oct 07, 2018 9:32 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks, I'm glad to be here. I agree, just because someone didnt graduate from art school dont mean they cant draw. I taught myself algebra one summer after failing it four times in college, went back in and made 100's back to back. He may have a black belt in something, I just never heard what. There is a tkd school here, when i get up the money I may can train there also. This school is free for now because it's just a few guys in the back of a weight lifting gym. I've had two years of bjj, and couple of years of various karate/boxing depending on what city I'm in. Anyway, glad to be here...


one other thing, someone pointed out to me that bruce lee didnt have a black belt in anything in particular, he just got good at wing chun, then looked at and borrowed stuff off other arts, trained very very hard, then called his combinations of knowledge jeet kune do.... you guys heard that?

I dont know if anyone "invents" a new style, I think they just get a brown or black belt in two different styles, then hang a sign on a door calling it a new name, but its just his two styles taught in one class.
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singularity6
Pre-Black Belt
Pre-Black Belt

Joined: 26 Jun 2017
Posts: 958
Location: Michigan
Styles: Jidokwan Taekwondo and Hapkido, Yoshokai Aikido, ZNIR Iaido, Kendo

PostPosted: Mon Oct 08, 2018 5:08 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sure, some folks can invent things on their own. Sure, it may have been done before elsewhere, but the idea could still be reached independently.

I do think that it's more common to find the charlatan who might mix a few basic concepts together and brand it as their own than it is to find legit pioneers, however.
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5th Geup Jidokwan Tae Kwon Do/Hap Ki Do

(Never officially tested in aikido, iaido or kendo)
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sensei8
KF Sensei
KF Sensei

Joined: 23 Feb 2008
Posts: 14183
Location: Houston, TX
Styles: Shindokan Saitou-ryu [Shuri-te/Okinawa-te based]

PostPosted: Mon Oct 08, 2018 8:33 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

singularity6 wrote:
Sure, some folks can invent things on their own. Sure, it may have been done before elsewhere, but the idea could still be reached independently.

I do think that it's more common to find the charlatan who might mix a few basic concepts together and brand it as their own than it is to find legit pioneers, however.

To the bold type above...

That is for absolute with MAists because we're in the business of reinventing ourselves over and over again from time to time. As Dr. Spencer Johnson once asked of his readers...

"Who Moved My Cheese?"

Well, Dr. Johnson, I did; and as often as it's possible within my own MA betterment.



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MatsuShinshii
Black Belt
Black Belt

Joined: 15 Aug 2016
Posts: 1423
Location: Kentucky
Styles: Machimura Suidi Rokudan, Ryukyu Kenpo, Kobudo, Judo

PostPosted: Mon Oct 08, 2018 3:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think it's possible for someone to take idea's and put them together to create something.

I have no issue with someone training under someone that created their own "art". Having said that I would be highly suspicious of it's content and it's effectiveness and would vet what is taught. Finding a fraud is a lot easier than finding the real deal.

Everyone has an innate ability to fight, to some extent. I see no reason that someone that has tried and tested their fighting theories in actual fights couldn't produce something just good and worth learning. The original founders did not have belts or ranks, they learned from several instructors and arts and tested it in actual combat. When properly vetted they combined what they had learned into what we have today.

A belt is just a belt. It's what's behind that belt that counts. Having said that there is something to be said for earning grade in that it tells the student, at minimal, that they have experience. It's easy to say you've done this or that but the real test is on the floor where the knuckles meet the body.

If they can back up what they say on the mat and on the streets then I see no reason that you shouldn't learn as much as possible from them. I'll take knowledge and skill over a belt any day.
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The person who succeeds is not the one who holds back, fearing failure, nor the one who never fails-but the one who moves on in spite of failure.
Charles R. Swindoll
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bushido_man96
KF Sensei
KF Sensei

Joined: 31 Mar 2006
Posts: 27542
Location: Hays, KS
Styles: Taekwondo, Combat Hapkido, Aikido, GRACIE

PostPosted: Fri Oct 12, 2018 3:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Lots of good comments here so far. As mentioned above, I think that if you enjoy the training, then continue to do so.

If it were me, I'd look at what the person is teaching, and at how practical what they are doing is. If I think they have something that is sound and effective, then its worth doing. If they don't, then I'd move on.

Something that does bother me, though, in situations like this, is why these folks tend to insist on claiming they've created their own style. I get the desire to be recognized as an individual, but if you've done some training in Shotokan and/or Kyokushin, then why not just say that your style is based off Shotokan or Kyokushin with whatever your philosophical or pedagogical approach to teaching is? To me, it would make one sound more credible. But that's just me.
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http://www.sunyis.com/
www.aikidoofnorthwestkansas.com
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