Add KarateForums.com
Username:    Password:
Remember Me?    
   I Lost My Password!
Post new topic   Reply to topic    KarateForums.com Forum Index -> Korean Martial Arts
Goto page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4  Next
 See a User Guidelines violation? Press on the post.
Author Message

TJ-Jitsu
Blue Belt
Blue Belt

Joined: 30 Sep 2014
Posts: 316
Location: PA
Styles: Gracie Jiu Jitsu, Muay Thai

PostPosted: Wed Aug 17, 2016 6:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

These are valid points and true no one has a patent on "MMA." Lets be quite honest though- someone comes into your school asking if you teach MMA... you know EXACTLY what they're referencing. This is the issue that I tend to call out. I also never heard of anyone teaching "mixed martial arts" until the UFC came about and popularized it. Is it a play on words? Sure it is, but people know exactly what you're referencing when you say "MMA."

Might the guy turn out to be great? With "black belts in muay thai" and all that? I mean, its a possibility and at the end of the day yes the proof is in the pudding.... but I have a strong feeling that hes teaching a kids gymnastics class rather than a martial arts class that actually teaches unarmed fighting.

Am I being harsh? Yeah (I said I was) but thats how I am
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message

guird
Orange Belt
Orange Belt

Joined: 21 Jun 2013
Posts: 198

Styles: BJJ, MMA, Gongkwon Yusul

PostPosted: Mon Sep 05, 2016 2:46 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm with TJ-jitsu on this one, there are a lot of red flags.

Like he said, no amount of red flags is a sure indicator, but based purely on the website I'm giving it a < 10% chance to offer decent training.

Go check it out anyway if it's close to you.

As for MMA, usage dictates meaning. When people say 'Mixed Martial Arts' they are almost always talking about gloved hybrid freefighting. Using the term to describe other things is misleading.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message

Luther unleashed
Brown Belt
Brown Belt

Joined: 30 Jan 2014
Posts: 661
Location: Phoenix
Styles: A few!

PostPosted: Tue Sep 06, 2016 1:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

guird wrote:
I'm with TJ-jitsu on this one, there are a lot of red flags.

Like he said, no amount of red flags is a sure indicator, but based purely on the website I'm giving it a < 10% chance to offer decent training.

Go check it out anyway if it's close to you.

As for MMA, usage dictates meaning. When people say 'Mixed Martial Arts' they are almost always talking about gloved hybrid freefighting. Using the term to describe other things is misleading.

I agree that it would be misleading anyway if one was to use the term mixed martial arts but they're teaching traditional martial arts however I would make the argument that I would be able to use this term and I should not be judged as a place that is not a for real place if you get what I'm saying. I don't see why I would have to be a McDojo just because I might use the term.

Typically I describe what I do as a blend of traditional martial arts because I know what people will think however I should not be locked into that and if I wish to use the term mixed martial arts I should be able to do it because I do teach several martial arts mixed together which would absolutely qualify it as a mixed martial art.

There's no question I can be misleading but it also can be simply the way a person describes it. I have been involved in martial arts since prior to the UFC and the term becoming popular mixed martial arts. The fact of the matter is people were mixing things all the time and it was a common practice in the 80s and 90s, using the simple phrase should not dictate whether you are a serious place or not .

I teach Tang Soo Do, Jeet Kune Do, Boxing, Kickboxing, Taekwondo, and a few others blended together into one program with one martial arts as more of a foundation but the fact is that I do teach a mixed martial art. We can let popularity determine that I am not using it accurately but in fact if you dissect the meaning of the words I am clearly using it accurately. I refuse to be bound by societies "What's popular now" words lol!
_________________
Hustle and hard work are a substitute for talent!
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message

Luther unleashed
Brown Belt
Brown Belt

Joined: 30 Jan 2014
Posts: 661
Location: Phoenix
Styles: A few!

PostPosted: Tue Sep 06, 2016 1:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I do agree though and what is being said about it because I do not use the term on my website for obvious reasons as you all have pointed out, but I would like to think that if I was to use it that some may assume I may have been practicing a mixture of martial arts prior to how it is used now and that does not necessarily mean I am trying to mislead people, because maybe I am just stubborn and would like to use whatever I would like to use.
_________________
Hustle and hard work are a substitute for talent!
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message

tallgeese
KF Sensei
KF Sensei

Joined: 04 May 2008
Posts: 6851
Location: McHenry County, IL
Styles: Brazilian Jiu Jitsu, Bujin Bugei Jutsu, Gokei Ryu Kempo Jutsu, MMA, Shootfighting, boxing, kickboxing, JKD, Pekiti Tersia Kali

PostPosted: Tue Sep 06, 2016 4:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm with TJ and guird on this one. Some of the verbiage is questionable:

"Master Edwards also owns Master E Security that specializes in Close Protection, Security and Conflict Resolution training.

.....

Master E has black belts in Karate, Kickboxing, Muay Thai, Escrima and Kung Fu. He is at present a 5th degree black belt."


Here's my beef. In the States we've seen a huge amount of marital artist jumping onto the personal security bandwagon of late. All of the shady ones use this terminology. It's usually a nice way of saying "I bounced in college, take my work about PSD work." Not always, to be certain, but it always makes me dig when I hear it.

Others have mentioned the belt thing. I agree. I'll add that I'm unaware of ANY FMAs, by whatever branding, that are legit and offer "black belts" in anything. It's not done that way. There are hierarchies in SOME of these organizations but they are not belted in any way, shape, or form. It's usually simply handled as student, assistant instructor, or full instructor licensing. With some students being allowed to run training groups under instructor guidance. That's about it. Some aren't even that well defined.

Anytime people utilize improper terminology it makes be wonder. What's the harm in saying "I'm an assistant instructor (or Full Instructor) under so and so in (please insert specific brand of escrima, that would go along way to verifying his claim) instead of claiming "black belt?"

That said, it could all be over-marketed. As others have pointed out, the best bet is to go check it out. But I'd go in a bit skeptical. Hopefully, you'll be pleasantly surprised.
_________________
http://alphajiujitsu.com/
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCJhRVuwbm__LwXPvFMReMww
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Yahoo Messenger

Luther unleashed
Brown Belt
Brown Belt

Joined: 30 Jan 2014
Posts: 661
Location: Phoenix
Styles: A few!

PostPosted: Fri Sep 23, 2016 4:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Common term we all know is "don't judge a book by its cover quote. I personally create my own website and I am constantly trying to update it to make it better and to be quite honest I know very little about things like that. I do 100% of it from an app on my phone. I can't imagine being charged so thoroughly from my website. If this is the case in shortly I am damaging my program by having anything up there because I'm quite certain I do an OK job at representing myself at best. I could only imagine if I had somebody else helping me out that I could not afford to pay for instants, that easily could write something when making a webpage thinking it sounds right but just a few simple keywords would make it all seem suspicious too many of us.

My only hope is that if I'm going to be judged that I am judged more so based on somebody who has visited my class and much less on what they see on the web.
_________________
Hustle and hard work are a substitute for talent!
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message

sensei8
KF Sensei
KF Sensei

Joined: 23 Feb 2008
Posts: 14406
Location: Houston, TX
Styles: Shindokan Saitou-ryu [Shuri-te/Okinawa-te based]

PostPosted: Fri Sep 23, 2016 4:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

It's a hard thing to endure, across the board. Thing about being judged is that no one can't control how others will judge you; it'll happen whether you like it or not. If you can put your head on a pillow in soundness that you've not violated your integrity and the like, then what others think about you is meaningless.

For me, the only opinion I want is from my wife and kids. Everyone else isn't that important!!




_________________
**Proof is on the floor!!!
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail

Alan Armstrong
Black Belt
Black Belt

Joined: 28 Feb 2016
Posts: 2204


PostPosted: Tue Sep 12, 2017 7:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Looks like a martial art academy, set up for newbies that have no prior martial art experience.

Family oriented for fun and fitness, based on martial arts as a hobby.

Has a viable niche in martial arts as a safe secure environment for learning self defence and confidence building.

Looks very suited for people looking to improve motor skills, coordination and emotional issues due to being unfit or overweight.

A caring role model martial art environment, without having to deal with real life pier pressure issues or ego problem solving skills as they will be discourage and or oppressed.

Classes look as if are solely cooperative based, wouldn't expect competitive or resistance training against each other, if so very rarely.

Could be and most likely wrong on all accounts, just what it looks like from my side of the PC screen.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail

MatsuShinshii
Black Belt
Black Belt

Joined: 15 Aug 2016
Posts: 1423
Location: Kentucky
Styles: Machimura Suidi Rokudan, Ryukyu Kenpo, Kobudo, Judo

PostPosted: Wed Sep 13, 2017 4:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

TJ-Jitsu wrote:
Luther unleashed wrote:
Yes DWX great point, simple and to the point. I still however wonder what screams McDojo to the original poster pdbnb?! I like to hear from people as I do my own website and that type of feedback is important. It looked ok to me. Maybe less traditional style then I prefer personally but still fine.


I'll entertain your question, but he warned- I'm a harsh critic

Firstly he plays on the terminology of mixed martial arts- mixed martial arts requires at least stand up and ground. In short, you need a striking style and a legitimate submission grappling style. He claims to teach karate, Kung fu, and Muay Thai thereby teaching "mixed" martial arts. With no credentials for anything on the ground. I'll bet money the "mma" classes (if offerred) are atrocious at best.

While we're on the topic of credentials, he claims to have a "black belt" in Muay Thai. That's an immediate red flag. There are no belts in Muay Thai and by claiming one he's claiming to be a fraud- there are no two ways about that. Then in regards to Kung fu- I was under the impression that Kung fu has sashes and not belts, and that a red sash is the highest rank- but certainly no black belts in Kung fu.

5 year old black belts....
Karate birthday parties...
Krav Maga....

This website has it all- yes it screams mcdojo.


Dang it TJ-Jitsu, you stole my thunder but I'm in complete agreement.

However I must make one correction to your post. I can't speak for other arts of Gung Fu but when I was a kid I took Fu Jow Pai and we wore belts.

As far as a black belt or sash is concerned, you'd have to ask someone else as I caught the Karate bug and left before I got to any substantial level.
_________________
The person who succeeds is not the one who holds back, fearing failure, nor the one who never fails-but the one who moves on in spite of failure.
Charles R. Swindoll
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message

Alan Armstrong
Black Belt
Black Belt

Joined: 28 Feb 2016
Posts: 2204


PostPosted: Thu Sep 14, 2017 4:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Let's play Devils advocate here.

The martial arts isn't standardized, therefore a black belt from one style to another will never be equal anyway; it is their curriculum, they can do whatever they want to grade their students; even if a white belt in Muay Thai Boxing is laughable, it is still their prerogative to do so.

A five year old black belt and both parents have been involved in martial arts for many years, so has the child since birth (Becoming a Black Belt by default) the child is not much different than being born in to the circus business, of course to be part of the parents performance or show will become more than likely.

Considering Karate birthday parties, shouldn't we celebrate the Founders martial art birthdays also, just because it hasn't been done as a regular way to celebrate them, why not, it is the done thing in the world of fine arts.

This martial art academy in question isn't for everyone but everyone is welcome to try them out.

The wording used in their online marketing campaign isn't targeted towards knowledgeable martial artist, but more towards giving regular people a chance to experience World martial arts, in an environment, that isn't as traditional and difficult as it is known to be in the past from Japan, China, Thailand, Israel... really who is to say what they are doing is wrong or right...if the students keep going back for more...then these people are supporting what they believe to be right and they know better first hand than anyone else.

From a Devils advocate perspective.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic   Reply to topic    KarateForums.com Forum Index -> Korean Martial Arts All times are GMT - 6 Hours
Goto page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4  Next
Page 2 of 4
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum


< Advertising - Contact - Disclosure Policy - Staff - User Guidelines >