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bushido_man96
KF Sensei
KF Sensei

Joined: 31 Mar 2006
Posts: 29283
Location: Hays, KS
Styles: Taekwondo, Combat Hapkido, Aikido, GRACIE

PostPosted: Wed Dec 11, 2013 1:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

guird wrote:
When it comes to self defense however, there may be some things important to take note of to allow your boxing to translate better into the street.


Good point. Training with the gloves on all the time, and hitting at the head, when it comes time for self-defense, this will probably be a natural reaction. That's when the broken hands can happen, because they don't adjust to hitting differently with the hand. Just a thought.
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guird
Orange Belt
Orange Belt

Joined: 21 Jun 2013
Posts: 198

Styles: BJJ, MMA, Gongkwon Yusul

PostPosted: Wed Dec 11, 2013 2:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

bushido_man96 wrote:


Good point. Training with the gloves on all the time, and hitting at the head, when it comes time for self-defense, this will probably be a natural reaction. That's when the broken hands can happen, because they don't adjust to hitting differently with the hand. Just a thought.


Yep, that's why I do bare-knuckle (well, recently I've taken to wearing hand wraps, I consider it impolite to bleed on punching bags that don't belong to me) heavy bag work at the sports centre nearby once or twice a week. I'm still trying to think of more ways to harden my knuckles themselves (heavy bag only helps to get technique right).
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bushido_man96
KF Sensei
KF Sensei

Joined: 31 Mar 2006
Posts: 29283
Location: Hays, KS
Styles: Taekwondo, Combat Hapkido, Aikido, GRACIE

PostPosted: Thu Dec 12, 2013 1:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

guird wrote:
bushido_man96 wrote:


Good point. Training with the gloves on all the time, and hitting at the head, when it comes time for self-defense, this will probably be a natural reaction. That's when the broken hands can happen, because they don't adjust to hitting differently with the hand. Just a thought.


Yep, that's why I do bare-knuckle (well, recently I've taken to wearing hand wraps, I consider it impolite to bleed on punching bags that don't belong to me) heavy bag work at the sports centre nearby once or twice a week. I'm still trying to think of more ways to harden my knuckles themselves (heavy bag only helps to get technique right).
The knuckles will harden some with the heavy bag work. You could look into some makiwara training, or some smaller hanging sand bags to build them up, as well.
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TheGrim123321
Yellow Belt
Yellow Belt

Joined: 18 Jun 2014
Posts: 34

Styles: (Kata Sei Do Karate [Kyokushin/MMA]) (Kung Fu [Shaolin/Wing Chun])

PostPosted: Thu Sep 04, 2014 9:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

My dojo only allows gloves for the first rank until you toughen ur knuckles.
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TheGrim123321
Yellow Belt
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Joined: 18 Jun 2014
Posts: 34

Styles: (Kata Sei Do Karate [Kyokushin/MMA]) (Kung Fu [Shaolin/Wing Chun])

PostPosted: Thu Sep 04, 2014 9:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well you can still where gloves but my sensei doesnt reccomend it.
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SteffiCurdy
White Belt
White Belt

Joined: 04 Sep 2014
Posts: 10
Location: Texas

PostPosted: Fri Sep 12, 2014 5:16 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

bushido_man96 wrote:
guird wrote:
bushido_man96 wrote:


Good point. Training with the gloves on all the time, and hitting at the head, when it comes time for self-defense, this will probably be a natural reaction. That's when the broken hands can happen, because they don't adjust to hitting differently with the hand. Just a thought.


Yep, that's why I do bare-knuckle (well, recently I've taken to wearing hand wraps, I consider it impolite to bleed on punching bags that don't belong to me) heavy bag work at the sports centre nearby once or twice a week. I'm still trying to think of more ways to harden my knuckles themselves (heavy bag only helps to get technique right).
The knuckles will harden some with the heavy bag work. You could look into some makiwara training, or some smaller hanging sand bags to build them up, as well.

Am curious to listen more
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Wastelander
KF Sensei
KF Sensei

Joined: 18 Oct 2010
Posts: 2622
Location: Phoenix, AZ
Styles: Shorin-Ryu, Shuri-Ryu, Judo, KishimotoDi

PostPosted: Fri Sep 12, 2014 11:09 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

SteffiCurdy wrote:
bushido_man96 wrote:
guird wrote:
bushido_man96 wrote:


Good point. Training with the gloves on all the time, and hitting at the head, when it comes time for self-defense, this will probably be a natural reaction. That's when the broken hands can happen, because they don't adjust to hitting differently with the hand. Just a thought.


Yep, that's why I do bare-knuckle (well, recently I've taken to wearing hand wraps, I consider it impolite to bleed on punching bags that don't belong to me) heavy bag work at the sports centre nearby once or twice a week. I'm still trying to think of more ways to harden my knuckles themselves (heavy bag only helps to get technique right).
The knuckles will harden some with the heavy bag work. You could look into some makiwara training, or some smaller hanging sand bags to build them up, as well.

Am curious to listen more


Are you wanting to learn more about hand conditioning, in general, or the use of makiwara or maize/sand bags, in particular?
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Shorin-Ryu | 2010-Present: Nidan | Sensei: Richard Poage (RIP), Jeff Allred (RIP)
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SteffiCurdy
White Belt
White Belt

Joined: 04 Sep 2014
Posts: 10
Location: Texas

PostPosted: Mon Sep 15, 2014 6:00 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Wastelander wrote:
SteffiCurdy wrote:
bushido_man96 wrote:
guird wrote:
bushido_man96 wrote:


Good point. Training with the gloves on all the time, and hitting at the head, when it comes time for self-defense, this will probably be a natural reaction. That's when the broken hands can happen, because they don't adjust to hitting differently with the hand. Just a thought.


Yep, that's why I do bare-knuckle (well, recently I've taken to wearing hand wraps, I consider it impolite to bleed on punching bags that don't belong to me) heavy bag work at the sports centre nearby once or twice a week. I'm still trying to think of more ways to harden my knuckles themselves (heavy bag only helps to get technique right).
The knuckles will harden some with the heavy bag work. You could look into some makiwara training, or some smaller hanging sand bags to build them up, as well.

Am curious to listen more


Are you wanting to learn more about hand conditioning, in general, or the use of makiwara or maize/sand bags, in particular?

Hand conditioning
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Wastelander
KF Sensei
KF Sensei

Joined: 18 Oct 2010
Posts: 2622
Location: Phoenix, AZ
Styles: Shorin-Ryu, Shuri-Ryu, Judo, KishimotoDi

PostPosted: Mon Sep 15, 2014 9:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hand conditioning is a pretty vast topic--it's been the topic of countless books and videos, nevermind all the arts that teach it. There are lots of ways to go about it, but how you do it is dependent on how you are planning to strike; punches, small-surface strikes, palm strikes, slaps, etc.

Since this thread is pretty much about punching, I'll assume you're wanting to condition your hands for punching. The first step is typically knuckle planks or push-ups. The key to these is to focus on making your striking knuckles bear your weight, since most people will let their fists collapse flat onto the ground.

Hitting the heavy bag without gloves or wraps is also a good starting point, but you have to work up to hitting hard. Hitting too hard, too soon, will result in injury and will set back your conditioning, rather than accelerating it. You can also use a maize bag (a head-sized bag filled with corn, beans rice, sand, or some combination of those things), since it will have more give than the heavy bag.

Karateka tend to jump straight for the makiwara when discussing hand conditioning, but I want to stress that the makiwara is NOT meant for hand conditioning! It does toughen the skin and bones through impact, but that is a side-effect. Its real purpose is strengthening the entire structure/power chain of your strike, and giving you feedback as to where weaknesses are in that structure/chain. Be careful with the makiwara, and be sure to start out slow--I usually have people start by just putting their knuckles in the pad and pushing the board back. Once they are comfortable with this, they can start striking it lightly, and work their way up over time. Too much power, or too many repetitions, will lead to injuries and setbacks.
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Shorin-Ryu | 2010-Present: Nidan | Sensei: Richard Poage (RIP), Jeff Allred (RIP)
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Judo | 2007-2010: Gokyu | Sensei: Joe Walker, Adrian Rivera
Karate Obsession | Arizona Practical Karate
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sensei8
KF Sensei
KF Sensei

Joined: 23 Feb 2008
Posts: 15712
Location: Las Vegas, NV
Styles: Shindokan Saitou-ryu [Shuri-te/Okinawa-te based]

PostPosted: Mon Sep 15, 2014 9:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Makawara training HAS to be worked up to; can't just start there! The denser the heavy bag, the better. Mess up on technique, these training tools will let give you feedback immediately.

Posture, and the like must be proper. Otherwise, any training tool isn't going to help in any shape, way, and/or form.



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