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Sokusen
Orange Belt
Joined: 29 Apr 2009
Posts: 110
Styles: Uechi-ryu
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 Posted: Wed Oct 13, 2010 7:36 am Post subject: |
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| I'm not disputing any of this. Nor do I disagree with anything anyone here has said. I just view things differently is all. I'm not saying that I wouldn't have just let the guy go. But I'm also not going to call someone an idiot because they obviously see things differently than I. |
My wife tells my son not to use the word idiot or stupid. She says no one is and idiot. I happen to disagree. I believe if you do something that you know is wrong then you’re an idiot. The reason I called this man an idiot is not because he has a different point of view, but because he knows better. The man did not defend himself he attacked someone and that’s the problem. I am all for criminals getting there just deserts, and maybe this thief deserved what he got. But part of being a martial artist is having self discipline and self awareness and he showed neither.[/quote] |
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JiuJitsuNation
Green Belt
Joined: 09 May 2010
Posts: 447
Location: ominpresent
Styles: BJJ Judo
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| Posted: Wed Oct 13, 2010 7:59 am Post subject: |
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In my opinion he got what he had coming to him and got off easy. If it were me he would have not gotten that far due to the dog that would have been on him before he knew I was aware. 2. Hes the goofball still standing by the car while the alarm is going off, long enough for the the guy to throw on some shorts and then go outside. If he killed the guy I could see everyones point. But it's these types of views that allows more people to be victims. Those who break the laws have no boundaries those who abide have many. Very difficult to play by the rules with people who don't. No laws, money, police, courts judges or juries can protect you. They can only hope to make you feel better about it if you survive. Many victims have to deal with the pain of what others have done because the same rules said say to follow will keep you safe are the same ones that will make you hesitate. He did not. He took responsibility for his things and this individual who intruded into his life. Kudos It's much deeper than the possessions in his jeep.
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Kuma
Black Belt
Joined: 03 Dec 2008
Posts: 1092
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| Posted: Wed Oct 13, 2010 2:32 pm Post subject: |
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In a situation like that, you always have to think worst case scenario. Let's say you do go running out unarmed at a suspicious guy who is standing next to your vehicle whose alarm is going off. There's a number of things that come into play with just this first part of the incident right here:
**What if this guy is armed? In this case he was, but only with a knife. What if he has a firearm? This Josh kid wouldn't be giving his interview today most likely if he did. And, though in this incident the thief ran off first, what if the thief immediately responded with his weapon rather than letting this kid chase him?
**What if he had friends? You may only see the one and go charging out, thinking emotionally rather than rationally, only to find out that there is multiple actors outside that now you have to deal with.
**Let's say you do chase the guy now, and while you're chasing him he manages to fall down and seriously injure himself. Now you just opened yourself up for a civil suit. Worst, what if while you're chasing him, something happens to you? Accidents happen everyday. In 2008 a man tried to shoot another man who was stealing his cell phone and accidentally shot and killed a 4 year old instead. I'd hate to be in his shoes.
**Now you finally caught up to him and during your fight you hit him and he falls to the ground, splits his head open, and dies. Now you're facing involuntary manslaughter charges just to protect your Garth Brooks CDs.
If he was a police officer, he gets paid to chase the bad guys so that's no problem. However, as a civilian, he faces a lot more limitations and also does not have the advantages a police officer has (i.e. defensive weapons, protective vest, and a radio to call backup). He's running off into the dark after a thief with nothing to protect himself and no way of knowing what he's getting himself into.
He got very lucky. A lot of people don't. Here are a number of incidents from this year alone where a civilian confronting a thief ended up on the losing end:
http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2010/jan/15/woman-killed-by-car-thief
http://www.king5.com/news/local/Man-killed-by-medical-marijuana-thief-87674627.html
http://theknoxvillejournal.tumblr.com/post/1269604151/knoxville-man-killed-in-burglar-confrontation-on-andes
There are also incidents where someone stopping a thief accidentally went too far and ended up killing them. I can guarantee that won't go over well in court.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1313952/Security-man-killed-shoplifter-Guard-choked-death-35-perfume.html
http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/metropolitan/7042101.html |
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JiuJitsuNation
Green Belt
Joined: 09 May 2010
Posts: 447
Location: ominpresent
Styles: BJJ Judo
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| Posted: Wed Oct 13, 2010 2:56 pm Post subject: |
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Yes sir i understand. People make choices and live or die with them. In this particular incident I applaud him. The legal system just complicates things more for stand up people. Human beings are constantly forcing their views and beliefs on each other. Constantly in each others business. And yet I can watch animal planet and watch a baby monkey fall a few short feet out of a tree, hit it's head on a log and they will spend 2 days filming it die. Never getting involved because they believe it will disrupt the balance. I feel the balance is disturbed and until we start to own our existence as individuals then things will continue to get worse. Cities die because people sit around hoping a strained and flawed system will change something or help them in some way. There will always be casualties. We are at the top of the food chain. The only thing hunting us is us and disease. Maybe the people that died believed in what they were doing. I don't know that they didn't.
Kuma let me also say that what you are getting at is excellent advice. Not arguing against it, please understand that.
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JiuJitsuNation
Green Belt
Joined: 09 May 2010
Posts: 447
Location: ominpresent
Styles: BJJ Judo
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| Posted: Wed Oct 13, 2010 3:13 pm Post subject: |
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Oh and if he finds some Garth Brooks cds in the Navi... just shoot me. lol
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Kuma
Black Belt
Joined: 03 Dec 2008
Posts: 1092
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| Posted: Wed Oct 13, 2010 5:54 pm Post subject: |
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I apologize if it seems like I'm picking a fight, just trying to present an alternative view.
Hey, some of us like country! |
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JiuJitsuNation
Green Belt
Joined: 09 May 2010
Posts: 447
Location: ominpresent
Styles: BJJ Judo
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| Posted: Wed Oct 13, 2010 5:58 pm Post subject: |
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| Kuma wrote: |
I apologize if it seems like I'm picking a fight, just trying to present an alternative view.
Hey, some of us like country! |
No sir! You made more than valid points. I have some very different views than some. Just expressing myself. 
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tallgeese
Black Belt
Joined: 04 May 2008
Posts: 6879
Location: McHenry County, IL
Styles: Brazilian Jiu Jitsu, Bujin Bugei Jutsu, Gokei Ryu Kempo Jutsu, MMA, Shootfighting, boxing, kickboxing, JKD, Pekiti Tersia Kali
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| Posted: Thu Oct 14, 2010 7:38 am Post subject: |
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That's the beauty of this forum, intelligent discussion. Really, that's pretty hard to find on-line.
I see where JJN is coming from. I'd like to agree; and I guess in principle, I like the idea of patting this guy on the back.
However, on the practical side, I lean towards Kuma's viewpoint. I rarely chase people at work for almost all the reasons that Kuma lists above. Even with weapons and training and such, it's too easy to get ambushed or hurt otherwise. Fleeing suspects are what dogs and perimeters are for in a best case world.
That's not saying I've never chased, but the situation has to be just so for me to justify the risk. Personally, this situation wouldn't rise to the occassion. The cost benifit doesn't weight out FOR ME. Now, move him to an aggressive posture, or it's my house instead of my car, we have a different situation. |
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bushido_man96
KF Sensei
Joined: 31 Mar 2006
Posts: 30188
Location: Hays, KS
Styles: Taekwondo, Combat Hapkido, Aikido, GRACIE, Police Krav Maga, SPEAR
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| Posted: Sat Oct 16, 2010 5:18 am Post subject: |
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Maybe a bit rash, but, hindsight is always 20/20. I agree with the comment that people grow tired of putting up with crimes happening to them.
He accomplished his safety, I think, when he chased the guy off. By following, he put himself at real risk of getting killed. Now, if you try to run the guy off, and he stays to fight, then that's different; fight for your stuff-you have the right to.
I guess if it were me, and my stuff was being burglarized regularly, I might take after him, too (but after running 100 feet, I'm sure I'd get tired and just go home  ).
Who knows? We all can say "I'd this" or "I'd that." But, once it happens, our state of mind can change, and we can do something totally out of character for ourself.
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wolverine uskf
Yellow Belt
Joined: 17 Aug 2010
Posts: 85
Location: cochranton, pa
Styles: kick boxing and submission wrestling
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| Posted: Tue Oct 19, 2010 7:59 am Post subject: |
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I think chasing him off is ok, but not going after him. I would only confront him in defence of my life and family, but i have 2 swords, 3 dogs, 4 martial artists, and 8 guns in my house that say he will run away.  Not to mention chasing him sounds like to much work.
To be honest, i try to live by what i teach, and that is the most important defence is be aware of the situation, and do what is needed to protect yourself and those you care about. Property can be replaced, but your life can't.
However my dogs do love my truck, and they sleep 30 feet away from it. |
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on the post.
