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aurik
Blue Belt
Blue Belt

Joined: 08 Nov 2016
Posts: 276
Location: Denver, CO
Styles: Shuri-Ryu, Uechi-Ryu

PostPosted: Sat Jul 09, 2022 1:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

R5ky wrote:
Hey everyone
I carefully considered all of the postings and comments on this page and decided.
I should just train if I like karate and not worry about the hybrid classes and deal with costs if any.
Coincidentally, I discovered a JKA-style dojo, a separate Shoto organization from the one in which I hold a Dan and the pricing is very reasonable.

I am aware that the majority of you practice different forms of karate, but how would you go about checking to see if your present rank is transferable?
I have no issues going back to being a white belt. I have not brought this up with the instructor when I called for information.

If any of you were in my shoes, would you insist on having your status recognized or would it be more honorable to insist and start over at the very beginning, at white, and climb the ladder from there?


I would be upfront and honest with the CI. Tell him about your previous experience, time since prior training, and ask him how he wants to handle things. His dojo, his rules. It sounds like you have the right attitude though -- I've seen things handled very different ways. One school I was in brought experienced students in an advanced kyu rank depending on how similar their previous experience was. At my current school, if you've earned a dan rank in Uechi-Ryu it'll be honored at our school, but it may take you extra time before testing for your next grade. We have another student who is a 5th degree in Shotokan but started as a white belt at our school (there is quite a bit of difference between Shotokan and Uechi-Ryu). However, he is treated considerably differently than other students at his rank -- for one thing, he is now teaching youth beginner's classes, which is unheard of for a 7th kyu in "normal" circumstances.

Again, be upfront and honest with the CI and let him decide how he wants to handle things.
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5th kyu Shuri-Ryu, 4th kyu Judo, shodan Uechi-Ryu
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Zaine
Black Belt
Black Belt

Joined: 31 Aug 2005
Posts: 1952
Location: Dallas, TX
Styles: Matsumura-Seito, Shobayashi-Ryu, Shudokan, Long Fist, American Street Karate, Southern Mantis, HEMA

PostPosted: Sat Jul 09, 2022 1:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I was in your shoes 6 months ago, starting a new dojo that practices a different branch of Shorin Ryu. I just went in as a white belt, didnt even consider asking to come in at Shodan. I wear it during informal classes, and of course any time at a tournament or outside thing, but in classes I started over and I found the experience to be refreshing and a lot of fun.

That said, they are different enough from my branch of Shorin Ryu (Matsumura Seito/Shorinji to Shobayashi/Shudokan) that I don't think it would have made much sense to ask. If this school is so similar to the point of the difference being trivial, I would ask the Sensei what their expectations are.
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Martial arts training is 30% classroom training, 70% solo training.

https://www.instagram.com/nordic_karate/
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R5ky
Member of the Month
Member of the Month

Joined: 27 Jun 2022
Posts: 43


PostPosted: Sat Jul 09, 2022 5:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
I was in your shoes 6 months ago, starting a new dojo that practices a different branch of Shorin Ryu. I just went in as a white belt, didnt even consider asking to come in at Shodan. I wear it during informal classes, and of course any time at a tournament or outside thing, but in classes I started over and I found the experience to be refreshing and a lot of fun.

That said, they are different enough from my branch of Shorin Ryu (Matsumura Seito/Shorinji to Shobayashi/Shudokan) that I don't think it would have made much sense to ask. If this school is so similar to the point of the difference being trivial, I would ask the Sensei what their expectations are.






Since this is a hybrid class and a white belt is simply outperforming the other colored belts, I also considered the fact that I wouldn't want to instill any lack of confidence in others, particularly children and teenagers. It is definitely not a problem for me to start over because I am confident I would advance quickly with my experience.
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Zaine
Black Belt
Black Belt

Joined: 31 Aug 2005
Posts: 1952
Location: Dallas, TX
Styles: Matsumura-Seito, Shobayashi-Ryu, Shudokan, Long Fist, American Street Karate, Southern Mantis, HEMA

PostPosted: Sat Jul 09, 2022 5:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I worried about that as well, but it ended up not being that bad. As my first Sensei used to say, in Karate you leave your egos at the door. I'm there to have fun and train, and everyone knows that I have 20 years under my belt, 2 Shodans, and that my practice schedule is intense. More than that, however, I love sharing. I can give perspective. I love drilling the same thing 100 times in a row. I have the patience to help someone until we're both satisfied. A part of starting over is lifting up others. A part of Karate is lifting up others. I'm there because I love Karate and I love it when other people walk into the door for the first time. I love having the chance to share that love. If others are hurt by your skill, especially after learning that this is not your first go-around, then that's their issue. That is their insecurity. They can either leave their egos at the door and let that motivate them to work harder, or they can wallow in their envy. That's not on you.

In my experience with kids and teenagers (and I taught 4th - 8th grade, so it's no small amount of experience), I think there a part that has an expectation of adults being better. When you're a teenager, you think that being a teenager is hard. I remember thinking it would be so nice if I had all this time that adults seemed to have to practice and do other things, but I had a schedule to keep. Obviously, I was comically unaware of how hard the next part of my life would be. However, if there are hurt feelings from younger people, that's a great opportunity to express to them that you have experience, and that you practice. They can be just as good as you are. The only thing that separates the two of you is time and practice.
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Martial arts training is 30% classroom training, 70% solo training.

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DarthPenguin
Orange Belt
Orange Belt

Joined: 03 Dec 2021
Posts: 175
Location: Glasgow, Scotland
Styles: Shotokan, Judo, BJJ

PostPosted: Mon Jul 11, 2022 2:33 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

R5ky wrote:
Quote:
I was in your shoes 6 months ago, starting a new dojo that practices a different branch of Shorin Ryu. I just went in as a white belt, didnt even consider asking to come in at Shodan. I wear it during informal classes, and of course any time at a tournament or outside thing, but in classes I started over and I found the experience to be refreshing and a lot of fun.

That said, they are different enough from my branch of Shorin Ryu (Matsumura Seito/Shorinji to Shobayashi/Shudokan) that I don't think it would have made much sense to ask. If this school is so similar to the point of the difference being trivial, I would ask the Sensei what their expectations are.






Since this is a hybrid class and a white belt is simply outperforming the other colored belts, I also considered the fact that I wouldn't want to instill any lack of confidence in others, particularly children and teenagers. It is definitely not a problem for me to start over because I am confident I would advance quickly with my experience.


Just to chime in as i totally agree with Zaine here and have done the same thing. Some of the students at the karate class found it weird to voluntarily go back and regrade but when i spoke to them they understood my reasoning.

What i have found from this (plus starting judo after several years experience in BJJ) is that you should just be open and honest about your experience and your desire to learn. If you don't then people start thinking you are just there to prove you are tough and beat people etc. But if you are wearing a white belt and sparring equally with BBs then no-one minds if they know you hold one in something else. My karate class just pairs me up with the BB's for kumite and does the kihon with my current grade and that works well.

Another thing i personally find that helps is i intentionally limit the techniques i use to ones i have been shown at the style. So at karate even though i can do a ura mawashi etc i don't do it as not been shown here yet. It is a little harder at Judo newaza as you can't choose not to use weight distribution etc without deliberately losing but you can restrict the submissions you use etc

I have also found that the coaches quite like it as it can be a good lesson to the experienced students/BBs that you should always treat a potential opponent with respect as you don't know their skill level - they might be wearing a white belt but they could actually be someone like the 5th Dan Aurik mentioned!
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scohen0300
Orange Belt
Orange Belt

Joined: 09 Feb 2016
Posts: 214
Location: It varies
Styles: Matsubayashi Shorin Ryu, Tang Soo Do

PostPosted: Wed Jul 13, 2022 5:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

So I see this a lot. Some places Iíve trained, adults are in the same class as students who are as young as 4. The kids get most of the attention, partially because they need it, and partially because the kids are their main source of income.

Most places Iíve trained, thereís a separate class for kids, and a ďteens/adultsĒ class. At my place, for example, we have a class for 5-7 year olds, another class for 8-12 year olds, and then a class for teens and adults. Donít get me wrong, thereís a special warmth I feel in my heart when one of my young students breaks a board and their face lights up - I do love teaching kids. But some days, I feel like I'm just getting through the kids classes (they just donít want to listen sometimes) so I can get to the adults and share what I'm truly passionate about. But the adults arenít what bring in the money we need to keep our doors open.

So although our ďfocusĒ is on the kids, we still have an hour long class every day where we simply focus on the adults. Im not sure why more places donít do this, and the only reasoning I can see is because they need money or theyíre in it for the money. Perhaps their available time is limited, but if youíre taking 1-2 hours to teach kids, and youíre truly passionate about what you do, why not take one additional hour to teach your passion to adults who can better comprehend what you have to offer?

***On the other hand, some people are just passionate about helping children and could care less about other adults. Thereís nothing wrong with this, and I think itís a great thing to offer in this world - exposing children to the martial arts.***

The way I see it, I love teaching kids. But Iím passionate about my martial art, and I want to share it. Kids simply canít learn it the way adults can, but adults simply canít pay for it the way kidsí parents can. While a balance is necessary for the world we live in, itís a shame when instructors lose themselves in the pursuit of money.
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scohen0300
Orange Belt
Orange Belt

Joined: 09 Feb 2016
Posts: 214
Location: It varies
Styles: Matsubayashi Shorin Ryu, Tang Soo Do

PostPosted: Wed Jul 13, 2022 5:47 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Just noticed the update - itís great you found a place! Everywhere Iíve gone, even after earning my black belt in Shorin Ryu, Iíve always started as a white belt. Sometimes youíre promoted faster, given your prior experience, but everywhere is different. Embrace the new style/new instructors, if you really want it, youíll have a black belt around your waist again in no time.
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