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R5ky
Yellow Belt
Yellow Belt

Joined: 27 Jun 2022
Posts: 50


PostPosted: Tue Jun 28, 2022 10:40 am    Post subject: Difficulty finding adult focused Karate classes Reply with quote

After taking a break from practicing karate, I discovered that it is uncommon to locate adult-focused programs at the majority of the schools I looked into.
Most schools are kid-centered and only devote a small number of days to teaching adults.
I'm not interested in the integrated training that some schools solely provide.
I realize that having children is a better investment for the future and that there is a guarantee for parents to send their children, which also ensures money, but what about the adults who are genuinely interested?
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Zaine
Black Belt
Black Belt

Joined: 31 Aug 2005
Posts: 2016
Location: Dallas, TX
Styles: Matsumura-Seito, Shobayashi-Ryu, Shudokan, Long Fist, American Street Karate, Southern Mantis, HEMA

PostPosted: Tue Jun 28, 2022 10:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi R5ky, welcome to the forum! It's great to have you.

The truth is that most dojos make their money from their kid's programs. I think it's fair to say that, at least in the US, that kids pay the bills, and adults are just extra. Because of that, you're not going to find a lot of schools that don't have kids programs, or focus more heavily on the kids classes at least. It's important for any business to cater a little more to their target audience, and in this case it's kids (and more than that the parents of those children).

That said, this doesn't mean that there isn't a robust adult program as well. Often, the adult program will look different from the kid program. It often takes a more serious tone, the teachers are able to get more in depth with the students on techniques, they can require more of the adults who have the brain development at that stage to work through disappointment about time in rank. Adult's expectations can be tempered better to understand the investment it will take to reach other ranks.

Overall, I would heavily suggest taking some trial classes in the dojos/dojangs around you. Hop on the floor with the adult classes and find out what it is about for that school. If it's something that is inline with your beliefs and goals, then join long-term. If it isn't, find another one.

Finally, there are some schools that focus strictly on adult teaching. Sometimes these are in dojos, sometimes these are in a house or park. Sometimes dojos are big enough that there can be a Sensei dedicated to only teaching kids, and one only for adults. Teaching kids is not for everyone. If you don't find a dojo that fits what you're looking for, try finding a group that might meet elsewhere.
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R5ky
Yellow Belt
Yellow Belt

Joined: 27 Jun 2022
Posts: 50


PostPosted: Tue Jun 28, 2022 2:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Zaine, I appreciate your kind words of welcome and your thoughtful reply.
One institution I contacted was charging $75 per month for just one class each week (Saturday), which I find absurd.
Others were asking between 150 and 175 for 2x week.
I'm alarmed by the increase in price because I used to pay 80 to 90 bucks for limitless training.
By the way, we're talking about karate here.
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LionsDen
Orange Belt
Orange Belt

Joined: 06 May 2022
Posts: 177


PostPosted: Tue Jun 28, 2022 4:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Iím not quite sure what the quest or issue you have is.
Youíve found dojos that have adult only classes, are you bothered they donít have more classes available per week?
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LionsDen
Orange Belt
Orange Belt

Joined: 06 May 2022
Posts: 177


PostPosted: Tue Jun 28, 2022 4:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

R5ky wrote:
Zaine, I appreciate your kind words of welcome and your thoughtful reply.
One institution I contacted was charging $75 per month for just one class each week (Saturday), which I find absurd.
Others were asking between 150 and 175 for 2x week.
I'm alarmed by the increase in price because I used to pay 80 to 90 bucks for limitless training.
By the way, we're talking about karate here.
I charge $25 per class, and $45 for private classes.

People are trying to make a living, and if they have paid staff of any sort those people need to be paid as well.
When did you used to train? Inflation sucks no one likes it, but prices canít stagnate while inflation is skyrocketing if a business wants to keep its doors open

Another way to look at it, if youíre the only student who paid for a class at a specific time, does it seem fair to expect someone teach you for minimum wage?
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Miick 11
Orange Belt
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Joined: 01 Jan 2021
Posts: 128


PostPosted: Tue Jun 28, 2022 5:12 pm    Post subject: Re: Difficulty finding adult focused Karate classes Reply with quote

R5ky wrote:
After taking a break from practicing karate, I discovered that it is uncommon to locate adult-focused programs at the majority of the schools I looked into.
Most schools are kid-centered and only devote a small number of days to teaching adults.
I'm not interested in the integrated training that some schools solely provide.
I realize that having children is a better investment for the future and that there is a guarantee for parents to send their children, which also ensures money, but what about the adults who are genuinely interested?


Same here . Its a kids babysitting program . I expect it is because ... that is what modern karate IS - a school kids physical fitness system based on older karate. I dont do it for just that reason - especially nowadays .

We visited a club in the nearby small city, three or four senior instructors and a herd of kids. One of the adults says to me ; " We might have different styles, but we are all in it for the same reason .... to help kids grow up to be good responsible adults . "

Me ; " We dont have any kids in our club . " ..... just as well too , I would never teach kids stuff like that . Any quires , I say to send them to the town's Shotokan club .

- I'll digress a bit ; we did have one 'kid' for a while, he was a senior at school, so not too young , he came from another club , in that nearby city . He wanted to train with us to learn , primarily, an ecu kata so he could 'do something different ' for his black belt examination, which they required . Many a conversation I had with his father about the costs they burdened them with . With us , he either paid $12 a lesson , or nothing if I took the class .

I was always concerned with his 'form' , I noticed at times , when 'under pressure' ( a quicker or surprise attack, a difficult move, etc ) his r leg, when in a rear position seemed near paralyzed , ie, knee bent and turned inwards, heel up and ankle twisted, as if all the weight was on the other leg , as if he was 'protecting' and keeping weight off the right leg . He didnt do it when practicing kata or kihon , so I asked him

" When you do a kata, does your instructor correct your 'form; stance ', position and balance ?"

"Oh... all the time ."

" And when you practice a bunkai, does he ever correct your footwork or leg position and stance ? "

" No . "

Strange , but the 'evidence' suggests that very thing . I kept pointing it out and suggested he correct it , but I guess, that was not what he was there for. The father is concerned and tells me how much he spent so far ; uniform, training sessions , club yearly payment , fees for each exam for each kyu , special 'training camps' , $150 for a previous black belt examination , but they failed him , and he still had to pay , this was his second attempt ... and money to buy (off them ) .... wait for it .... a hakama !

Me ; " An Hakama ? In karate . "

Dad; " Yes, they can wear one for training after they become a black belt . "

Anyway , I talked to his father about the left rear leg 'problem' but he didnt seem interested - I suppose he thought if it was not significant , otherwise the 'professional' instructors would have said something .

Anyway, he got his black belt , I saw a film of his exam, which he did in his new hakama and doing our ecu kata and then demonstrating a couple of bunkais he learned from us with his
instructor as partner ( who, nervously, was wearing a full kendo helmet ) He did a basic move , the crowd roared approval, he got his black belt .

Then he vanished . I saw the father some months later and he was complaining about all the new charges again ..... what ? ! Apparently all that was for his JUNIOR black belt , and if he wants a full senior one ......

The last time I saw the father he was distraught . The lad got a bad disabling injury in a sparing competition . Me ; " Right leg ? "

Yup ! now the kid has to have a big operation .... on something .... doc says 'No more karate for you ! " It will probably trouble him into the future as well . No more being a 'karate cash cow ' for him !

I dont know what the total money cost ended up to be .
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R5ky
Yellow Belt
Yellow Belt

Joined: 27 Jun 2022
Posts: 50


PostPosted: Tue Jun 28, 2022 5:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sorry, but the post concerning rates is a whole topic all on its own.
Finding courses that are just as suitable for adults was the post's major focus (which Ive been finding less of).
The lack of training days and the higher tuition fee than I had previously experienced are two other issues I've recently been unhappy with.
I haven't trained Karate regularly in nearly two years.

For example, Im training at a JJ gym that charges under $100 per month (Mon-Sat)1 1/2hour classes with multiple classes times available in one day.

So far in my research with Karate, I have found very few dojos that offer adult courses, or if they do, they only offer them seldom, have more times and classes for kids classes, and charge nearly double the normal amount for lets say just a 30 to 45 min class for example.
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LionsDen
Orange Belt
Orange Belt

Joined: 06 May 2022
Posts: 177


PostPosted: Tue Jun 28, 2022 7:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

According to https://www.usinflationcalculator.com/
$1 in 2020 is equal to $1.13 in 2022 money.
$1.13x90=$101.7
So $150 would make sense to insulate from annual price increases due to inflation over a decade or so, they can keep the price the same for many years.

Just for reference.
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R5ky
Yellow Belt
Yellow Belt

Joined: 27 Jun 2022
Posts: 50


PostPosted: Tue Jun 28, 2022 8:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
According to https://www.usinflationcalculator.com/
$1 in 2020 is equal to $1.13 in 2022 money.
$1.13x90=$101.7
So $150 would make sense to insulate from annual price increases due to inflation over a decade or so, they can keep the price the same for many years.

Just for reference.


Thank you; nonetheless, it is what it is, and we must accept it in general, along with everything else that has increased; and by "everything," I mean literally everything.
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DarthPenguin
Blue Belt
Blue Belt

Joined: 03 Dec 2021
Posts: 315
Location: Glasgow, Scotland
Styles: Shotokan, Judo, BJJ

PostPosted: Wed Jun 29, 2022 3:16 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

R5ky wrote:
Sorry, but the post concerning rates is a whole topic all on its own.
Finding courses that are just as suitable for adults was the post's major focus (which Ive been finding less of).
The lack of training days and the higher tuition fee than I had previously experienced are two other issues I've recently been unhappy with.
I haven't trained Karate regularly in nearly two years.

For example, Im training at a JJ gym that charges under $100 per month (Mon-Sat)1 1/2hour classes with multiple classes times available in one day.

So far in my research with Karate, I have found very few dojos that offer adult courses, or if they do, they only offer them seldom, have more times and classes for kids classes, and charge nearly double the normal amount for lets say just a 30 to 45 min class for example.


Maybe it is worth doing some digging and trying to find schools where the instructor is teaching on the side and has a separate main job - then they may be teaching for less as it isn't their main source of income.

I'm always amazed when i see the USA costs of training. For reference i pay £6 per session for my karate class and i pay £65 per month for my bjj class (which is with a Black Belt, so no lower price due to coloured belt coach etc.)

Difference seems to be that in the USA there are a lot more people teaching martial arts as a job, so , quite understandably, they charge a lot more to meet their living expenses.

to my mind you really only have a few different options :

- Find a cheaper school where the instructor is teaching as a sideline, though there are likely to be less class times / flexibility of classes
- Pay a more expensive school but find one that does an "unlimited training for $XXX per month" offer and just train as much as possible. That will reduce your per class cost and also let you improve faster
- Bite the bullet and pay for the expensive single class fees
- Take up another martial art!

Best of luck finding a suitable school - hopefully you get a good one
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