Add KarateForums.com
Username:    Password:
Remember Me?    
   I Lost My Password!
Post new topic   Reply to topic    KarateForums.com Forum Index -> Karate
Goto page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9  Next
 See a User Guidelines violation? Press on the post.
Author Message

bushido_man96
KF Sensei
KF Sensei

Joined: 31 Mar 2006
Posts: 28121
Location: Hays, KS
Styles: Taekwondo, Combat Hapkido, Aikido, GRACIE

PostPosted: Wed Aug 13, 2008 10:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Shoto4Life wrote:
Five katas dont really make sense though. I think Funakoshi's orignal 15 kata syllibus is what makes the most sense and what Im going to adhear to.


But, years ago, the old masters would often times only practice one kata. I think either way is ok.
_________________
www.haysgym.com
http://www.sunyis.com/
www.aikidoofnorthwestkansas.com
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail

Shoto4Life
Yellow Belt
Yellow Belt

Joined: 10 Aug 2008
Posts: 58

Styles: Traditional Karate

PostPosted: Thu Aug 21, 2008 10:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thats not fact. Masters had to hand them down based on memory. Had to practice them.

For a practioner its probably good to pick five and master them.

For style it makes sense to have more for depth, choice and variety of the style.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message

bushido_man96
KF Sensei
KF Sensei

Joined: 31 Mar 2006
Posts: 28121
Location: Hays, KS
Styles: Taekwondo, Combat Hapkido, Aikido, GRACIE

PostPosted: Thu Aug 21, 2008 10:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I didn't say that they only knew one kata, but that they would practice one. I believe one story about Funakoshi goes that he was allowed to practice only the Naihanchi kata for his first 7 years of training?
_________________
www.haysgym.com
http://www.sunyis.com/
www.aikidoofnorthwestkansas.com
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail

tenshinka
Orange Belt
Orange Belt

Joined: 09 Aug 2008
Posts: 137


PostPosted: Fri Aug 22, 2008 7:02 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Shoto4Life wrote:
Thats not fact. Masters had to hand them down based on memory. Had to practice them.

For a practioner its probably good to pick five and master them.

For style it makes sense to have more for depth, choice and variety of the style.


Actually, it is fact. It was not until the late 1800's and early 1900's that Karateka started practicing more than one, or a few kata. Many Masters before then would only have 1 or 2 kata, that were passed down in their lineage. In fact, Motobu Udun Te had NO kata.

I'm pretty sure that the collecting of many Kata did not come about until Matsumura, and Itosu's time.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message

Shoto4Life
Yellow Belt
Yellow Belt

Joined: 10 Aug 2008
Posts: 58

Styles: Traditional Karate

PostPosted: Fri Aug 22, 2008 1:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thatís true Funakoshi did train Tekki for like ten years straight or something like that.

What doesnít make sense about it is that back then they mostly trained the kata, as they werenít allowed to train out in the open so kihon wasnít really done - only kata in secrecy. Also kumite didnít come along until later with Japanese influence. So seems kinna silly that they only had the one kata they trained. Lore does dictate that Tekki was the only original Okinawan kata though.

So I guess I dunno.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message

tallgeese
KF Sensei
KF Sensei

Joined: 04 May 2008
Posts: 6852
Location: McHenry County, IL
Styles: Brazilian Jiu Jitsu, Bujin Bugei Jutsu, Gokei Ryu Kempo Jutsu, MMA, Shootfighting, boxing, kickboxing, JKD, Pekiti Tersia Kali

PostPosted: Fri Aug 22, 2008 2:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I haven't read "My way of Life" recently so I'm not sure about the katas Funikoshi was training on.

There is also a wealth of knowledge in those old forms that the previous generations had a far better understanding of than what we do today, save for maybe a few systems out there than can trace back to the originals. A sinlgle form may well have contained hundreds of mental cues for combat, not merely techniques.

I know, I'm hardly a kata proponant and quite frankly, I'm pretty sure that I can't name 5 katas, let alone do them. Still, for those of the old guard who truely knew what the movements were representing I can see how they would have been helpful for the time. And perhaps not as many were needed due to the densly packed information in each.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Yahoo Messenger

bushido_man96
KF Sensei
KF Sensei

Joined: 31 Mar 2006
Posts: 28121
Location: Hays, KS
Styles: Taekwondo, Combat Hapkido, Aikido, GRACIE

PostPosted: Mon Aug 25, 2008 7:35 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

tenshinka wrote:
Shoto4Life wrote:
For style it makes sense to have more for depth, choice and variety of the style.


It was not until the late 1800's and early 1900's that Karateka started practicing more than one, or a few kata.


I think that the main reason the number of katas practiced grew has to do with the advent of the belt system. With each new belt comes new testing requirements, and forms fit the bill.

tallgeese wrote:
Still, for those of the old guard who truely knew what the movements were representing I can see how they would have been helpful for the time. And perhaps not as many were needed due to the densly packed information in each.


Iain Abernethy takes this approach to his kata research. You ought to look him up, just for kicks (no pun intended.. ).
_________________
www.haysgym.com
http://www.sunyis.com/
www.aikidoofnorthwestkansas.com
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail

tallgeese
KF Sensei
KF Sensei

Joined: 04 May 2008
Posts: 6852
Location: McHenry County, IL
Styles: Brazilian Jiu Jitsu, Bujin Bugei Jutsu, Gokei Ryu Kempo Jutsu, MMA, Shootfighting, boxing, kickboxing, JKD, Pekiti Tersia Kali

PostPosted: Mon Aug 25, 2008 8:34 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yeah, I see his name come up quite a bit around here. I even checked out some stuff on amazon in regards to another thread.

I guess it's time to get that ordered and check it out.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Yahoo Messenger

macox
White Belt
White Belt

Joined: 29 Oct 2007
Posts: 14
Location: Olympia, WA
Styles: shudokan

PostPosted: Sun Sep 07, 2008 2:11 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I only know 5

pinan nidan
empitake
pinan shodan
kihon shodan
kiso kata

my favorite 2 are empitake, and pinan shodan
_________________
Calvin: "People think it must be fun to be a super genius, but they don't realize how hard it is to put up with all the idiots in the world."
Hobbes: "Isn't your pants zipper supposed to be in the front?"
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message

doug_kissaki
Yellow Belt
Yellow Belt

Joined: 04 Sep 2008
Posts: 68
Location: NJ, USA
Styles: Goju, Tang Soo Do, Shotokan, Kissaki Kai

PostPosted: Mon Sep 08, 2008 8:27 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

As early masters would travel and learn new techniques, kata was used as a method for them to remember techniques so that they could return and teach them. Kata is simply a form of "shorthand" I've heard it said that each kata (at least the original, classic katas) is an entire system of self defense unto itself.

It is true that students would train specific katas for years at a time. This is because it takes years to truly master a kata. By "master" I do not simply mean being able to do all the moves very well. Mastery includes an in-depth knowledge of the kata's bunkai.
_________________
Doug

www.kissakikai.com
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic   Reply to topic    KarateForums.com Forum Index -> Karate All times are GMT - 6 Hours
Goto page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9  Next
Page 3 of 9
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum


< Advertising - Contact - Disclosure Policy - Staff - User Guidelines >