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Hawkmoon
Pre-Black Belt
Joined: 17 Jun 2013
Posts: 891
Location: MK in the UK
Styles: Kyokushin
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 Posted: Fri Oct 03, 2014 8:20 am Post subject: |
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| TJ-Jitsu wrote: |
Interesting discussion- ... general consensus that full contact is the way to go, but that doesn't mean its the only way to train.
...become a strong critic whenever anyone claims they're learning how to fight. Fun and fitness- do whatever you want. Learning to fight on the other hand is very much a science and less of an art.
..
Most training ... is not full contact even in full contact sports. |
... not sure I agree, 100%! 
| TJ-Jitsu wrote: |
When you do boxing or muay thai for example, you're not regularly getting hit when you're shadow boxing or doing bag work. With a good pad holder, you'll get a couple of things thrown your way to keep you honest but not until you start sparring are you starting to get popped.
So the pros and cons- simple enough full contact lets you experience and feel exactly what a real fight is going to be like but the greater the contact the greater the risk of injury. As you tone it down you lose a little of that realism in exchange for safety. Both will inevitably be needed, but you cant train if you're injured and you cant learn how to fight if you're not getting hit (or otherwise dealing with full or close to full resistance). How much to do one over the other tends to be a personal choice. |
Some good points views on FC, like I call out I'm not 100% on all of them.
No matter where you learn or what you learn in the street the other guy side of the argument is not about to go gentle or wait for you to pad up or get the mats out ... to them its game time!
Yes it is true that much of the MA that is taught today tends to be sport biased, to fight for points, as traditionalist I agree with you when you make that point, its a point that needs to be made clear to everyone that walks through the door 'to learn to fight!'.
... and that's the true real point and so problem, people walk in form the street to learn to fight and the guy at the front of the hall doesn't correct them he lets them join, lets them learn to fight and ... it would seem ... not care that they now feel like superman and are ready to take on the world.
The guy at the front in the problem here, they need to find out why the newbie walked in at all!
many of us here are parents, many of us will become parents, and without doubt we were all once children and victims to various degrees of bullying, name calling, play ground taunting and so on and so on ....
Sit back in your place of work, office or shop floor ... notice any familiarity in some of the actions of the people around you?
What happened at school is still happening, now today as you watch, heck you may even be the victim .... that newbie that walked in form the street has what story to tell and what reasoning to give to want 'to learn how to fight!'?
Until they walked in, be that to karate, kung Fu, judo, Ju Jitsu, Nin Jitsu, Krav Magar, Thai boxing etc they new nothing about MA, what it really means, how to walk in what to say, who to talk to..something else drove them to this place.
Something that hurts them, worries them enough to want to 'learn how to fight ' and do something about it.
To learn MA is to be taught how to fight.
To learn MA is to be taught how to defend yourself.
To learn MA is to be taught how to walk away, to not fight.
Martial Arts teaches self belief,self confidence more than anything to trust in you and your new ability to be able to sum up the situation and know !
Martial Arts - defense only, a contradiction in terms ... well maybe not, any conflict is only the result of the actions that brought you to that place, that point.
How you got there is important.
If you are pushed/pulled into the conflict, makes no difference, you were bullied into a situation that the other side constructed, you were setup to fail.
MA teaches you self confidence, and by that lesson you are not easily bullied into a situation and to that I'll add not easily bullied into a situation you cannot deal with ... however that pans out.
Sport karate, full contact or knockdown, it is fighting, the differences between are all in the mind and how the same skills are applied.
_________________
“A human life gains luster and strength only when it is polished and tempered.”
Sosai Masutatsu Oyama (1923 - 1994) Founder of Kyokushin Karate. |
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sensei8
KF Sensei
Joined: 23 Feb 2008
Posts: 16430
Location: Las Vegas, NV
Styles: Shindokan Saitou-ryu [Shuri-te/Okinawa-te based]
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| Posted: Fri Oct 03, 2014 9:22 am Post subject: |
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| Hawkmoon wrote: |
| TJ-Jitsu wrote: |
Interesting discussion- ... general consensus that full contact is the way to go, but that doesn't mean its the only way to train.
...become a strong critic whenever anyone claims they're learning how to fight. Fun and fitness- do whatever you want. Learning to fight on the other hand is very much a science and less of an art.
..
Most training ... is not full contact even in full contact sports. |
... not sure I agree, 100%!
| TJ-Jitsu wrote: |
When you do boxing or muay thai for example, you're not regularly getting hit when you're shadow boxing or doing bag work. With a good pad holder, you'll get a couple of things thrown your way to keep you honest but not until you start sparring are you starting to get popped.
So the pros and cons- simple enough full contact lets you experience and feel exactly what a real fight is going to be like but the greater the contact the greater the risk of injury. As you tone it down you lose a little of that realism in exchange for safety. Both will inevitably be needed, but you cant train if you're injured and you cant learn how to fight if you're not getting hit (or otherwise dealing with full or close to full resistance). How much to do one over the other tends to be a personal choice. |
Some good points views on FC, like I call out I'm not 100% on all of them.
No matter where you learn or what you learn in the street the other guy side of the argument is not about to go gentle or wait for you to pad up or get the mats out ... to them its game time!
Yes it is true that much of the MA that is taught today tends to be sport biased, to fight for points, as traditionalist I agree with you when you make that point, its a point that needs to be made clear to everyone that walks through the door 'to learn to fight!'.
... and that's the true real point and so problem, people walk in form the street to learn to fight and the guy at the front of the hall doesn't correct them he lets them join, lets them learn to fight and ... it would seem ... not care that they now feel like superman and are ready to take on the world.
The guy at the front in the problem here, they need to find out why the newbie walked in at all!
many of us here are parents, many of us will become parents, and without doubt we were all once children and victims to various degrees of bullying, name calling, play ground taunting and so on and so on ....
Sit back in your place of work, office or shop floor ... notice any familiarity in some of the actions of the people around you?
What happened at school is still happening, now today as you watch, heck you may even be the victim .... that newbie that walked in form the street has what story to tell and what reasoning to give to want 'to learn how to fight!'?
Until they walked in, be that to karate, kung Fu, judo, Ju Jitsu, Nin Jitsu, Krav Magar, Thai boxing etc they new nothing about MA, what it really means, how to walk in what to say, who to talk to..something else drove them to this place.
Something that hurts them, worries them enough to want to 'learn how to fight ' and do something about it.
To learn MA is to be taught how to fight.
To learn MA is to be taught how to defend yourself.
To learn MA is to be taught how to walk away, to not fight.
Martial Arts teaches self belief,self confidence more than anything to trust in you and your new ability to be able to sum up the situation and know !
Martial Arts - defense only, a contradiction in terms ... well maybe not, any conflict is only the result of the actions that brought you to that place, that point.
How you got there is important.
If you are pushed/pulled into the conflict, makes no difference, you were bullied into a situation that the other side constructed, you were setup to fail.
MA teaches you self confidence, and by that lesson you are not easily bullied into a situation and to that I'll add not easily bullied into a situation you cannot deal with ... however that pans out.
Sport karate, full contact or knockdown, it is fighting, the differences between are all in the mind and how the same skills are applied. |
Solid post!!
_________________
**Proof is on the floor!!! |
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