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jaypo
Purple Belt
Purple Belt

Joined: 26 Apr 2012
Posts: 520

Styles: Shotokan, Shorin Ryu

PostPosted: Thu Mar 27, 2014 12:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

We did some light contact sparring yesterday, and 2 beginners looked horrified! They're not in the class to become warriors. Just martial artists.

I was able to spar with the largest black belt. And I landed some spinning kicks to his liver, a sidekick to his ribs, and a couple of punches to his head. However, if I were to hit him with any one of those strikes with full force, he would be incapacitated. But that's the style we train in. We look for openings that will cause the most damage, and our higher level students can find them even against a high level opponent. So we don't use full force, or there would be a lot of injuries!
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Hawkmoon
Pre-Black Belt
Pre-Black Belt

Joined: 17 Jun 2013
Posts: 891
Location: MK in the UK
Styles: Kyokushin

PostPosted: Thu May 15, 2014 4:17 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

jaypo wrote:
We did some light contact sparring yesterday, and 2 beginners looked horrified! They're not in the class to become warriors. Just martial artists.

I was able to spar with the largest black belt...... a sidekick to his ribs...punches to his head..... However, if I were to hit him with any one of those strikes with full force, he would be incapacitated.

A heavy session the other day had a near perfect side kick reach its target (my ribs) with way more power than I expected, had me groan in pain stagger a little before I was able to gather my thoughts and get back into the fight (just as time was called)


people come to the dojo, sit in the hall all focused and excited to see what they see....many vanish never to be seen again!
Some clearly spend time in the gym, and only need green body paint to win the next fancy dress contest!
never to be seen again!
The few that return and even have a go, all feel great and are more excited to be in the lineup, then they get to spar, you can almost see the adrenaline in there veins flowing around at light speed!

Then the graded guys fight and the look changes, the sound more than anything as each punch kick lands a groan or grunt escapes the guy being hit.
The one new guy (maybe) who returns and works at it and gets graded to then fight along with everyone else!
jaypo wrote:
But that's the style we train in. We look for openings that will cause the most damage, and our higher level students can find them even against a high level opponent. So we don't use full force, or there would be a lot of injuries!




Question/maybe a poll.

Do we consider ourselves to be a warrior or an artist?

Is it that clean cut?


..
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A human life gains luster and strength only when it is polished and tempered.
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Last edited by Hawkmoon on Thu Jun 26, 2014 5:00 am; edited 1 time in total
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jaypo
Purple Belt
Purple Belt

Joined: 26 Apr 2012
Posts: 520

Styles: Shotokan, Shorin Ryu

PostPosted: Thu May 15, 2014 7:49 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I consider myself an artist first. If I were living in a prior time period, I'd probably train like a warrior. I can put up with a pretty good deal of pain, so I don't think the risk of injury or pain would be that big of a deal. But being a Bank Manager and father of 2 young kids on a tight budget, dealing with broken ribs, bones, and hospital bills aren't in my plan at this time!

While in high school and college, we trained (unofficially) full contact. A friend of mine's dad had a dojo, and we used Kenpo gloves (like MMA gloves today) and fought full contact. But it wasn't during a class. We'd just get together on the weekends and practice. It was very fun, but that was when I was 17. I'm almost 40 now, and I have a lot more to lose!
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unknownstyle
Purple Belt
Purple Belt

Joined: 29 Aug 2005
Posts: 553
Location: Texas
Styles: Matsumura Seito Shorin Ryu and Uechi Ryu

PostPosted: Thu May 15, 2014 8:50 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

This is the way my Shorin Ryu teacher does sparring-
10-7th kyu students throw hard contact punches from the belt up to the neck. no head contact, sweeps, or leg kicks.
6-4th kyu students have moderate head contact hard body shots, sweeps and groin contact. all fighting is done standing no going to the ground to finish them.
3rd-1st kyu have face and head contact usually hard hard body shots hard leg kicks, simulated contact to joints.(don't wanna take out a knee but should try and get to the ahot.
when sparring the rules are dictated by the rank of the junior. this causes upper ranks to continue focus on other targets without having to worry about getting their heads knocked off. this is also when the upper rank students will focus on adjusting timing and rhythm against a lesser trained oppinent.
by the time we made Shodan watching two blackbelts sparring was usually very boring as both were looking for that one shot to end it. at Shodan there also was little softening of the strikes we throw against each other in sparring.
and all this training is done with just a pair of gloves. we don't suit up head to toe to avoid injury
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TheGrim123321
Yellow Belt
Yellow Belt

Joined: 18 Jun 2014
Posts: 34

Styles: (Kata Sei Do Karate [Kyokushin/MMA]) (Kung Fu [Shaolin/Wing Chun])

PostPosted: Wed Jun 18, 2014 12:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

At my school the only gear we wear is a mouthguard and light mma gloves(some times) and we go full contact hard spar face and everything we hit as hard as we can
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bushido_man96
KF Sensei
KF Sensei

Joined: 31 Mar 2006
Posts: 29847
Location: Hays, KS
Styles: Taekwondo, Combat Hapkido, Aikido, GRACIE, Police Krav Maga, SPEAR

PostPosted: Mon Jun 23, 2014 9:11 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

TheGrim123321 wrote:
At my school the only gear we wear is a mouthguard and light mma gloves(some times) and we go full contact hard spar face and everything we hit as hard as we can
Full contact, bare knuckle face contact, all the time?
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Hawkmoon
Pre-Black Belt
Pre-Black Belt

Joined: 17 Jun 2013
Posts: 891
Location: MK in the UK
Styles: Kyokushin

PostPosted: Tue Jul 01, 2014 8:16 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

FC or not FC?
Both have advantages the other does not, both give the student something that is needed and not covered in one or the other.
You do need to do both I feel, each has merits that should not be ignored.

Years ago the sport stuff was what I did in tournaments, in the dojo I train ed the same as the other guys, the full contact fighters, we all did the same stuff!

All that differed (so I thought) was the emphasis of the fight the punch, the kick etc. When it came to sparring, they would pick me to spar with, the rule was I could go nuts on them they would not return the favor!

I have to be honest I thought they did so as I was an easy win, so I made sure when we fought I simply was not there to be hit back, I would dance around them picking up points with ease and beat them every time.
Thing was I later realized they were not looking for an easy win, they were looking to increase there reaction times and get faster, to see an attack and deal with it faster.

In return I learned to move and when they caught me, to fall over with grace and not smash my head on the floor!


Anyway, FC or not FC...
Sport karate
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=laJQejLYoqY

Full contact karate
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AkJlOe-yIrc

Or maybe
TKD full contact
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YLkc_wtRih8

Kung Fu full contact
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LvTQIMLPfEg

(Random sections for the first page returned)
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Sosai Masutatsu Oyama (1923 - 1994) Founder of Kyokushin Karate.
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kinetickick
White Belt
White Belt

Joined: 21 Sep 2014
Posts: 19
Location: tuoelo, ms
Styles: tkd, jiu jitsu

PostPosted: Sun Sep 21, 2014 9:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Both can be equally strenuous, however, full contact is totally different. There are different risks and benefits to each.
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TJ-Jitsu
Blue Belt
Blue Belt

Joined: 30 Sep 2014
Posts: 316
Location: PA
Styles: Gracie Jiu Jitsu, Muay Thai

PostPosted: Thu Oct 02, 2014 8:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Interesting discussion- seems to be the general consensus that full contact is the way to go, but that doesn't mean its the only way to train.

Yeah Im not a big fan of point sparring. I become a strong critic whenever anyone claims they're learning how to fight. Fun and fitness- do whatever you want. Learning to fight on the other hand is very much a science and less of an art.

Anyways....

Most training ironically is not full contact even in full contact sports. When you do boxing or muay thai for example, you're not regularly getting hit when you're shadow boxing or doing bag work. With a good pad holder, you'll get a couple of things thrown your way to keep you honest but not until you start sparring are you starting to get popped.

So the pros and cons- simple enough full contact lets you experience and feel exactly what a real fight is going to be like but the greater the contact the greater the risk of injury. As you tone it down you lose a little of that realism in exchange for safety. Both will inevitably be needed, but you cant train if you're injured and you cant learn how to fight if you're not getting hit (or otherwise dealing with full or close to full resistance). How much to do one over the other tends to be a personal choice.
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Archimoto
Purple Belt
Purple Belt

Joined: 12 Apr 2014
Posts: 548

Styles: JKD / Muay Thai / TKD

PostPosted: Fri Oct 03, 2014 5:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

TJ-Jitsu wrote:
Learning to fight on the other hand is very much a science and less of an art.


Interesting point - thank you!
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