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unknownstyle
Purple Belt
Joined: 29 Aug 2005
Posts: 553
Location: Texas
Styles: Matsumura Seito Shorin Ryu and Uechi Ryu
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 Posted: Mon Sep 15, 2008 1:21 am Post subject: |
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i believe its not the style that you must master but the concepts of combat. the rest is just thinking in motion, you must be able to strategize. that is the key to mastery, not learning ever technique ever created
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"Live life easy and peacefully, but when it is time to fight become ferocious." |
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bushido_man96
KF Sensei
Joined: 31 Mar 2006
Posts: 30188
Location: Hays, KS
Styles: Taekwondo, Combat Hapkido, Aikido, GRACIE, Police Krav Maga, SPEAR
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| Posted: Mon Sep 15, 2008 1:53 pm Post subject: Re: "Jack-of-all-trades, Master of none..." |
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| Tiger1962 wrote: |
I feel that if all you are trying to do is pick up a few moves from a couple different styles to supplement your existing training, then that's fine. I agree with your statement: being able to defend oneself is the ultimate goal and managing your time doing that is key. However for those who own and operate a school and are trying to be the "one stop shopping" martial arts school, then I think they are doing the city the school exists in a big disservice by misrepresenting themselves just to bring in more $$$$ to their dojo.
Sometimes a person will say they're experienced in various styles just to recruit as many students as possible to their school. That's a bad move AND false advertising. |
That is why it is important to check out these schools, and to get an idea of what they offer. If it is more in the MMA flavor, then they probably have a good idea of how to put everything together. Even some traditional schools will have a good way of putting a few styles together successfully as well.
Yes, there are those out there that don't do it well, and they should be avoided. But you never know until you try it out.
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www.haysgym.com
http://www.sunyis.com/
www.aikidoofnorthwestkansas.com |
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bushido_man96
KF Sensei
Joined: 31 Mar 2006
Posts: 30188
Location: Hays, KS
Styles: Taekwondo, Combat Hapkido, Aikido, GRACIE, Police Krav Maga, SPEAR
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| Posted: Mon Sep 15, 2008 1:54 pm Post subject: |
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| unknownstyle wrote: |
| i believe its not the style that you must master but the concepts of combat. the rest is just thinking in motion, you must be able to strategize. that is the key to mastery, not learning ever technique ever created |
I don't think that learning every technique is a great idea, either. However, learning combative concepts is important. Not every place will teach the same concepts, either. Learning the concepts standing up and on the ground take a different perspective.
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http://www.sunyis.com/
www.aikidoofnorthwestkansas.com |
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unknownstyle
Purple Belt
Joined: 29 Aug 2005
Posts: 553
Location: Texas
Styles: Matsumura Seito Shorin Ryu and Uechi Ryu
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| Posted: Mon Sep 15, 2008 10:21 pm Post subject: |
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| bushido_man96 wrote: |
| unknownstyle wrote: |
| i believe its not the style that you must master but the concepts of combat. the rest is just thinking in motion, you must be able to strategize. that is the key to mastery, not learning ever technique ever created |
I don't think that learning every technique is a great idea, either. However, learning combative concepts is important. Not every place will teach the same concepts, either. Learning the concepts standing up and on the ground take a different perspective. |
very valid point, and furthermore once you understand the concepts of both you should be able to apply ground concepts to the stand up side of fighting as well as stand up to the ground.
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"Live life easy and peacefully, but when it is time to fight become ferocious." |
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bushido_man96
KF Sensei
Joined: 31 Mar 2006
Posts: 30188
Location: Hays, KS
Styles: Taekwondo, Combat Hapkido, Aikido, GRACIE, Police Krav Maga, SPEAR
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| Posted: Tue Sep 30, 2008 9:43 am Post subject: |
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I'd like to add a different viewpoint to this discussion now. Take a TKDer or a Karateka, who takes their time and splits it up between kicking with the feet, and punching/striking with the hands. Aren't we, in practicing these styles, essentially taking time away from one skill set, like using the feet, by focusing on both?
Now, take Boxers, who only use their hands. By focusing only on hands, do they stand to become the "master of one," whereas in other MAs that use both punching and kicking, tend to be "master of none?"
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tallgeese
Black Belt
Joined: 04 May 2008
Posts: 6879
Location: McHenry County, IL
Styles: Brazilian Jiu Jitsu, Bujin Bugei Jutsu, Gokei Ryu Kempo Jutsu, MMA, Shootfighting, boxing, kickboxing, JKD, Pekiti Tersia Kali
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| Posted: Tue Sep 30, 2008 10:39 am Post subject: |
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Good point, bushido man.
I think that you have to look at what you are doing what you're doing for. If you want to box at a highly copetitive level, then you probibly shouldn't be doing anything but that. Just accept that you're going to be good with your hands and hands alone, hence mastery (which is a pretty hard term to pin down anyway- hence I don't use it much).
If you want to be a fighter with access to punching and kicking, then you accept that you will sacrifice time in one to work on another. This might lead to a mastery of that art, but not boxing.
If you want to be able to defend yourself across a wide spectrum of sd situations, then you're going to have to cross train more. Hence you time gets further diluted. Time management become key. But what's really important here is understanding the fight in it's totality, not just technipues. I talk about principles, understaning or "mastery" of those are what your goal sould be. Someone above called them concepts, whatever the name you tack to them dosen't matter. What matters is having a broader understaing of what it takes to come out on top during a fight and how best to make that happen. Whether it be relying on your boxing skills or utilizing other skilss you've accrued along the way. To me, that's more the "mastery level" of sd arts.
Now, just as it works the way I described in my little heirarchy above, it also works in reverse. Just because you understand combative principles and how to apply them, dosen't mean youv'e "mastered any given "technipue" or art or part of an art thay you utilize therin.
It's all about really what you're looking for and how well you're acheiving it. |
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bushido_man96
KF Sensei
Joined: 31 Mar 2006
Posts: 30188
Location: Hays, KS
Styles: Taekwondo, Combat Hapkido, Aikido, GRACIE, Police Krav Maga, SPEAR
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| Posted: Tue Sep 30, 2008 10:47 am Post subject: |
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Solid post, tallgeese. I like this section here:
| tallgeese wrote: |
| But what's really important here is understanding the fight in it's totality, not just technipues. I talk about principles, understaning or "mastery" of those are what your goal sould be. Someone above called them concepts, whatever the name you tack to them dosen't matter. What matters is having a broader understaing of what it takes to come out on top during a fight and how best to make that happen. Whether it be relying on your boxing skills or utilizing other skilss you've accrued along the way. To me, that's more the "mastery level" of sd arts. |
I think you are right. Its about the totality of the self-defense situations, and being able to handle them. I think this is some good information.
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joesteph
Black Belt
Joined: 11 Aug 2008
Posts: 2753
Location: USA
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| Posted: Tue Sep 30, 2008 2:01 pm Post subject: |
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| unknownstyle wrote: |
| i believe its not the style that you must master but the concepts of combat. the rest is just thinking in motion, you must be able to strategize. that is the key to mastery, not learning ever technique ever created |
Insight and focus; thinking on your feet. Good points, unknownstyle.
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~ Joe
Vee Arnis Jitsu/JuJitsu |
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RichardZ
Brown Belt
Joined: 03 Nov 2009
Posts: 624
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| Posted: Wed Nov 04, 2009 10:02 pm Post subject: Re: "Jack-of-all-trades, Master of none..." |
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| bushido_man96 wrote: |
This phrase floats around a lot in MA discussion, especially when it might come to cross-training, or training for events that might demand such action, like MMA competition, or RBSD.
So, my question to the members of KarateForums.com, is how much does this really concern you? Do you worry about having too much on your plate, or that you won't be able to excell in one style because you take time for 2?
Personally, I feel that the phrase is bunk. When you get to the root of the matter, that Martial Arts primary goal is to allow you one to effectively defend oneself, then it is imperative that one be able to handle oneself in any situation that could arise in combat, be it standing, clinching, or grappling. In the end, I think it has more to do with effective time management and training programs.
What does the community think? |
I look upon it like this.
An automotive mechanic has to know as much as about a car in order to maintain many situations.
Per brakes, cooling, performance, etc.
A martial artist has the same.
A car has many things to know about and learn.
Martial arts the same.
It would be best tp learn many things upon the same subject. |
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Kuma
Black Belt
Joined: 03 Dec 2008
Posts: 1092
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| Posted: Sun Nov 08, 2009 2:14 pm Post subject: |
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While I do agree it's good to be well-rounded, I also think you should concentrate on your strengths while minimizing your weaknesses. If you're a fantastic striker but only an OK grappler then you can work on your game plan to stay on your feet, avoid fighting where you're weaker at, and stay in the position where you can use your strengths. If you're a fantastic grappler but a poor striker, the reverse could be the same.
This way, you train your strategy to use your best strengths (e.g. striking), minimize your weaknesses (e.g. grappling), and over time your weaknesses will grow just as strong as another's strength that it won't be a problem anymore.
I have no problem with cross-training, I just think way too many MAists get into it before they're ready. You should have a solid foundation in one martial art before pursuing another in my opinion. I would say at least shodan or nidan in one style before considering another personally (or, in those that don't do belts, several years of experience). |
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on the post.
