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bushido_man96
KF Sensei
Joined: 31 Mar 2006
Posts: 30188
Location: Hays, KS
Styles: Taekwondo, Combat Hapkido, Aikido, GRACIE, Police Krav Maga, SPEAR
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 Posted: Sun Nov 08, 2009 8:34 pm Post subject: |
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| Kuma wrote: |
| I have no problem with cross-training, I just think way too many MAists get into it before they're ready. You should have a solid foundation in one martial art before pursuing another in my opinion. I would say at least shodan or nidan in one style before considering another personally (or, in those that don't do belts, several years of experience). |
I see statements like this a lot concerning cross training. Although I think that following this method does have merit, I don't think it is necessary in becoming an effective practitioner in multiple styles. I think the appearance of more and more MMA gyms will lend to this, as well. If there are good resources available for someone who wants to cross train, or better yet, a facility that makes it an all-in-one endeavor, then I think it is just as beneficial to cross train right out of the gate.
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Kuma
Black Belt
Joined: 03 Dec 2008
Posts: 1092
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| Posted: Sun Nov 08, 2009 9:40 pm Post subject: |
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Notice how the best MMA fighters though usually have one phenomenal aspect of their game. For example, none of the current UFC champs each have one major strength to their name.
Lesnar was a NCAA Division I champion wrestler. Machida has his extensive karate background. Silva is just an amazing striker. GSP, another amazing striker. Penn is a grappling phenom.
Each one of these guys is a master of what they do and they do it well. It's rare to see a guy who's only "pretty good" at both hold onto the reins for very long. |
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bushido_man96
KF Sensei
Joined: 31 Mar 2006
Posts: 30188
Location: Hays, KS
Styles: Taekwondo, Combat Hapkido, Aikido, GRACIE, Police Krav Maga, SPEAR
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| Posted: Sun Nov 08, 2009 9:49 pm Post subject: |
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These are good examples, but it doesn't mean that someone who is well rounded won't come along and dominate.
Machida does hold rank in BJJ as well, doesn't he? Just because he doesn't use it as much, doesn't mean that he isn't good at it. He just doesn't have to.
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RichardZ
Brown Belt
Joined: 03 Nov 2009
Posts: 624
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| Posted: Sun Nov 08, 2009 10:51 pm Post subject: |
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| Kuma wrote: |
| I have no problem with cross-training, I just think way too many MAists get into it before they're ready. You should have a solid foundation in one martial art before pursuing another in my opinion. I would say at least shodan or nidan in one style before considering another personally (or, in those that don't do belts, several years of experience). |
This is a good post and I agree. It is not advantageous practicing for any short length of time or ability before moving on. |
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Kuma
Black Belt
Joined: 03 Dec 2008
Posts: 1092
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| Posted: Mon Nov 09, 2009 12:37 am Post subject: |
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| bushido_man96 wrote: |
These are good examples, but it doesn't mean that someone who is well rounded won't come along and dominate.
Machida does hold rank in BJJ as well, doesn't he? Just because he doesn't use it as much, doesn't mean that he isn't good at it. He just doesn't have to. |
Exactly, because he's a great striker and he concentrates on that as his strength. He covered his weakness as a striker by becoming a BJJ black belt. He started training in karate at age 3, and BJJ at 15. So there was a 12 year time span between the two. He's a good example of someone who puts the effort in. That's the common trend among the champs.
Take another great fighter, Matt Hughes. By the time he stepped in the Octagon in 2001 he was already a wrestling phenom since his days in high school (~1992). These guys are definitely a far cry from the norm. What sets them apart is they began by extensively training in what would become their main game plan. A lot of the more "joe average" fighters may mix and match quicker but when you get to the elite they put their time in. |
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tallgeese
Black Belt
Joined: 04 May 2008
Posts: 6879
Location: McHenry County, IL
Styles: Brazilian Jiu Jitsu, Bujin Bugei Jutsu, Gokei Ryu Kempo Jutsu, MMA, Shootfighting, boxing, kickboxing, JKD, Pekiti Tersia Kali
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| Posted: Mon Nov 09, 2009 1:13 am Post subject: |
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This method has more to do with the time frame in which your examples started in mma than being the most effective method. For instance, when Hughes started wrestling, no one had even heard of the UFC yet. Same with Machida and karate. For the longest time that was simlply THE primary method of building fighters.
Now, with the advent of mma as a major sport, and it's influence being what it is across the martial arts as a whole, you're strarting to see a shift in this. More people are just starting training in multiple diciplines. Time wil tell how the people starting now, under this new method, will do in comparison. That particular generation hasn't hit hte cirrcuit just yet.
I'm not saying that staying with a single art to black belt or beyond is a bad idea before cross training, I'm simply saying that it's probably not as big a deal as some people make it out to be. |
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RichardZ
Brown Belt
Joined: 03 Nov 2009
Posts: 624
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| Posted: Mon Nov 09, 2009 7:54 pm Post subject: |
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| I guess we still have to consider a length of study per not a length of set time. Length of study to be that of good ubndertanding of the method(s) before changing. |
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bushido_man96
KF Sensei
Joined: 31 Mar 2006
Posts: 30188
Location: Hays, KS
Styles: Taekwondo, Combat Hapkido, Aikido, GRACIE, Police Krav Maga, SPEAR
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| Posted: Tue Nov 10, 2009 9:20 pm Post subject: |
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| tallgeese wrote: |
This method has more to do with the time frame in which your examples started in mma than being the most effective method. For instance, when Hughes started wrestling, no one had even heard of the UFC yet. Same with Machida and karate. For the longest time that was simlply THE primary method of building fighters.
Now, with the advent of mma as a major sport, and it's influence being what it is across the martial arts as a whole, you're strarting to see a shift in this. More people are just starting training in multiple diciplines. Time wil tell how the people starting now, under this new method, will do in comparison. That particular generation hasn't hit hte cirrcuit just yet.
I'm not saying that staying with a single art to black belt or beyond is a bad idea before cross training, I'm simply saying that it's probably not as big a deal as some people make it out to be. |
Tallgeese hit on what I have been trying to say. Just because we haven't seen it yet, doesn't mean that its not an effective way of training. As time goes by, I do think that we will see this happen more.
Now, that isn't to say that figters still won't have their preferences. That will always be the case. But I think you will begin to see things done more as a compilation.
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RichardZ
Brown Belt
Joined: 03 Nov 2009
Posts: 624
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| Posted: Wed Nov 11, 2009 8:31 pm Post subject: |
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| bushido_man96 wrote: |
| Now, that isn't to say that figters still won't have their preferences. That will always be the case. But I think you will begin to see things done more as a compilation. |
Indeed.
I guess this is where finally the first "M" in "MMA" is starting to get definite meaning. |
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ShoriKid
Pre-Black Belt
Joined: 14 Dec 2007
Posts: 900
Styles: Matsubyashi-Ryu, Okinawan Kempo, wrestling, bits of BJJ
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| Posted: Fri Nov 13, 2009 5:51 am Post subject: |
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The biggest advantage a good MMA gym has over cross training on your own is that they know how to intergrate skills. They have a structure for "mixing" the the arts.
Most people cross training don't have that advantage. They train in one art, and another and have to figure out how to intergrate them together. That takes a lot of work, and a much better understanding of at least one of the arts. Then you can look at how to add things in from that view point. That is where the strength of that good base comes in at. For a lot of people that's a much better plan than trying to just hit a school here and another there and trying to figure both out, and how they work together as they go.
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Kisshu fushin, Oni te hotoke kokoro. A demon's hand, a saint's heart. -- Osensei Shoshin Nagamine |
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on the post.
