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50inches
Yellow Belt
Joined: 17 Mar 2007
Posts: 61
Location: Sweden
Styles: Karate/MMA
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 Posted: Fri Sep 14, 2007 12:36 pm Post subject: NO to low kicks! Yes to high kicks! |
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I´ve read many times in forums about how when being in a self defense situation one should only rely on low kicks.
I have thougt trough this and I really think that its nonsens, I mean when you watch martial arts competation, most guys can take probobley 5-6 good lowkicks on the same leg and still be standing. I realize that these athletes can take much more punishment than your average joe, but when your in a real fight situation in real life, adrenalin is at 110%, the chance of your opponent going down on 1 kick to the leg is not big.
And then there are those who tell you that you should never kick to the head in self defense, I could not disagree more, if u practise a martial art like taekwondo or kuykushin karate, your kicking is usually very skilled, my personal kicking is compared to my punching awsome, I am flexible and have real fast kicks, I would rely on a kick to the face in self defense any day. This however is not for everyone, if you can barely kick to the head, then you should not try it, but if you can, why not do it. I realize that you are not at 100% balance, but im willing to take that risk for a split second if im that confident that I can make it. Unlike lowkicks, the chance of dropping your opponent with 1 high kick is pretty big, considering that average joe does not have the best guard in the world, it should not be impossible to complete. |
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The BB of C
Black Belt
Joined: 11 Feb 2007
Posts: 1264
Location: Orlando, Florida
Styles: Kuk Sool Won, Isshin-ryu, Capoeira, Brazillian Jiu Jutsu, Judo
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| Posted: Fri Sep 14, 2007 2:22 pm Post subject: |
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| I agree very much. |
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username8517
Green Belt
Joined: 25 Oct 2006
Posts: 459
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| Posted: Fri Sep 14, 2007 3:04 pm Post subject: Re: NO to low kicks! Yes to high kicks! |
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First, your argument is flawed based merely on the examples you use.
You are comparing low kicks against people trained to resist pain and keep going versus head kicks against your average joe on the street with a poor guard.
| 50inches wrote: |
| I mean when you watch martial arts competation, most guys can take probobley 5-6 good lowkicks on the same leg and still be standing. I realize that these athletes can take much more punishment than your average joe |
| Quote: |
| Unlike lowkicks, the chance of dropping your opponent with 1 high kick is pretty big, considering that average joe does not have the best guard in the world, it should not be impossible to complete. |
Second, most low kicks talked about in self-defense situations are generally aimed at places that are illegal targets in sparring and sporting competitions such as the knees and groin. Big difference in driving a kick into the side of someone's thigh than into their knee.
Also, there are many factors that can change the outcome of your kick that are eliminated in a designated training ground as opposed to the street including, but not limited to: slick ground (snowy ground, wet pavement, etc.), lack of changing elevation of said ground (fighting on a incline or decline), and debris on the ground (rocks, needles, lava).
Anyone skilled can kick about waist height or below with little to no shift in their body movement and balance. However, kicking above the waist requires the upperbody to move as well to compensate for this shifting balance due to the mechanics of their body doing something it was not originally intended to do. Thus having to constantly shift your balance to kick high risks losing your balance as the foot returns to the ground if one of the above examples proves more troublesome than your mind calculated prior to executing said kick.
Futhermore, it's a matter of physics. Kicking high requires the leg to travel further, thereby taking more time and energy to do so. This is not only on the way up, but on the way down too provided you miss. That extra second it takes for the missed high kick to land and for you to adjust yourself back into position can be troublesome against a skilled fighter, regardless of formal training or not.
That being said, kicking high can be a nice tool to use every now and then as they can be a fight ender, but so can knee and groin strikes. For most situations "on the street" it's really not logical when you think about all the factors involved--kind of like punching to the groin.
Personally I won't say I would never kick to the head in a street fight. In fact, I advocate kicking their head all the time. But only in situations where their head is about your waist height.  |
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Rateh
Red Belt
Joined: 02 May 2005
Posts: 848
Location: USA
Styles: WTF Taekwondo
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| Posted: Fri Sep 14, 2007 3:17 pm Post subject: |
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Lol, lava...
:p
Personally, I can kick above my head hight, but I would never try it in a street situation. Even in sparring usually do waist level kicks.
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Rainbow_Warrior
Green Belt
Joined: 01 Oct 2006
Posts: 359
Styles: Now : MMA/luta livre/Thai , before :Kung fu,kick boxing , boxing, amateur wrestling
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| Posted: Fri Sep 14, 2007 3:28 pm Post subject: |
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Both are useful... If you can kick high with power and speed , why dont you behead some bad boy ?
Low kicks can be devastating too.... I would not recommend you to take one (just 1) low kick from cro cop. You will not walk for several days.
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cross
Black Belt
Joined: 22 Jan 2003
Posts: 1904
Location: Australia
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| Posted: Fri Sep 14, 2007 4:41 pm Post subject: |
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I agree with basically everything bearich wrote. Just a few points to consider:
Can you high kick without stretching first?
High kicking goes against any good system principles such as closest weapon closest target.
To pull off a high kick you require distance. In a real situation, this is rarely something you have. The majority of fights start and finish within arms reach, From this distance you can still drive lowline kicks into the attacker but head kicks would be near impossible to perform without moving back first, and to do this just gives your attacker more opportunity to hit you.
In the amount of time it takes to do 1 high kick you could probably land a reasonable amount of hand strikes that are harder for your opponent to defend against and less likely to put you off balance. |
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bushido_man96
KF Sensei
Joined: 31 Mar 2006
Posts: 30188
Location: Hays, KS
Styles: Taekwondo, Combat Hapkido, Aikido, GRACIE, Police Krav Maga, SPEAR
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| Posted: Fri Sep 14, 2007 4:50 pm Post subject: |
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The high kick is another tool. It can be useful, as some have mentioned, but timing and opportunity are important in the situation. Being able to do both is a good thing, I think. You just have to be careful and pick your spots. A high kick is much easier to grab and stop than a low kick that is outside of the reach of the arms.
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50inches
Yellow Belt
Joined: 17 Mar 2007
Posts: 61
Location: Sweden
Styles: Karate/MMA
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| Posted: Sat Sep 15, 2007 4:26 am Post subject: |
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| cross wrote: |
I agree with basically everything bearich wrote. Just a few points to consider:
Can you high kick without stretching first?
High kicking goes against any good system principles such as closest weapon closest target.
To pull off a high kick you require distance. In a real situation, this is rarely something you have. The majority of fights start and finish within arms reach, From this distance you can still drive lowline kicks into the attacker but head kicks would be near impossible to perform without moving back first, and to do this just gives your attacker more opportunity to hit you.
In the amount of time it takes to do 1 high kick you could probably land a reasonable amount of hand strikes that are harder for your opponent to defend against and less likely to put you off balance. |
First of all, yeah I can kick at headheight without stretching 
Im not saying that the high kick would be my only tool in self defense, I would probobley first throw the jab straight combo and just follow it up with a roundhouse, if i do the straight to the stomach I think most people will lower their guard just a little bit, but enough for me to land a kick to the head. There are a bunch of combos to do, but im just saying that I dont think impossible and deffinetly not useless to throw headkicks.
And for the guy that mentioned that I would not be able to take crocops leg kick, I belive you hahaha, but then again if I saw crocop I would not challenge him in a fight, or any guy of his size. |
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50inches
Yellow Belt
Joined: 17 Mar 2007
Posts: 61
Location: Sweden
Styles: Karate/MMA
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| Posted: Sat Sep 15, 2007 4:43 am Post subject: |
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| bearich wrote: |
First, your argument is flawed based merely on the examples you use.
You are comparing low kicks against people trained to resist pain and keep going versus head kicks against your average joe on the street with a poor guard.
| 50inches wrote: |
| I mean when you watch martial arts competation, most guys can take probobley 5-6 good lowkicks on the same leg and still be standing. I realize that these athletes can take much more punishment than your average joe |
| Quote: |
| Unlike lowkicks, the chance of dropping your opponent with 1 high kick is pretty big, considering that average joe does not have the best guard in the world, it should not be impossible to complete. |
Second, most low kicks talked about in self-defense situations are generally aimed at places that are illegal targets in sparring and sporting competitions such as the knees and groin. Big difference in driving a kick into the side of someone's thigh than into their knee.
Also, there are many factors that can change the outcome of your kick that are eliminated in a designated training ground as opposed to the street including, but not limited to: slick ground (snowy ground, wet pavement, etc.), lack of changing elevation of said ground (fighting on a incline or decline), and debris on the ground (rocks, needles, lava).
Anyone skilled can kick about waist height or below with little to no shift in their body movement and balance. However, kicking above the waist requires the upperbody to move as well to compensate for this shifting balance due to the mechanics of their body doing something it was not originally intended to do. Thus having to constantly shift your balance to kick high risks losing your balance as the foot returns to the ground if one of the above examples proves more troublesome than your mind calculated prior to executing said kick.
Futhermore, it's a matter of physics. Kicking high requires the leg to travel further, thereby taking more time and energy to do so. This is not only on the way up, but on the way down too provided you miss. That extra second it takes for the missed high kick to land and for you to adjust yourself back into position can be troublesome against a skilled fighter, regardless of formal training or not.
That being said, kicking high can be a nice tool to use every now and then as they can be a fight ender, but so can knee and groin strikes. For most situations "on the street" it's really not logical when you think about all the factors involved--kind of like punching to the groin.
Personally I won't say I would never kick to the head in a street fight. In fact, I advocate kicking their head all the time. But only in situations where their head is about your waist height. |
Yes but right after I said that athletes can take alot of punishment to the legs, I mentioned average joe, that in a situation with all that adrenaline he can take more than 1 low kick, considering that most fights dont last than a minute, you dont have enough time for lowkicks to put him down.
I guess that if its selfdefense, things like groinkicks and such would go, I however can not see my self having the heart to do that, and not once in my life have I seen a fight where someone kicks somebody to the balls  , I would not want to be the first, but then again self defense is self defense, so yeah you can do that.
Most fights here where im from, are over some beef between people, or just people that get drunk a saturday night and want you to become victime to their terror. I dont know if these count as selfdefense, but in these situations I would not throw groinkicks or such, however if im in a dark alley by my self and nobody else there, and someone comes up and threatens me, I would without a doubt throw a groinshot, but this happens very rarely here, so selfdefense for me is the first thing I mentioned 9 out of 10 times.
Ultimatly the groin kick is the best weapon you can use, and it alone could be enoughe to defend one self, but if we do martial arts and learn all kinds of other stuff that can be considered more "moral" defense, why not use it if you are confidant in it. |
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Jay
Black Belt
Joined: 20 May 2005
Posts: 1190
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| Posted: Sat Sep 15, 2007 7:39 am Post subject: |
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HAHA more moral whats moral about them attacking you in the first place groin shots finger jabs eye gouges all good its their fault for attacking you simple. In a street fight i belive it is very rare that you will have the distance to perform a head shot personally an elbow to head would be better and more realistic as a weapon to use.
However if the distance is there then by all means throw a kick to the head i dont think most people would have the intelligence to grab it unless they saw it coming and i mean you should only be kicking to head if you are fast im by no means quick enough to pull this off although i can do it.
On the thought of the low kick a kick to the shin or breaking the knee would be suffient i would have thought.
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on the post.
