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Drunken Monkey
Black Belt
Joined: 10 Apr 2002
Posts: 3559
Location: bar italia
Styles: white chocolate profiteroles and natas....
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 Posted: Mon Sep 29, 2003 5:44 pm Post subject: |
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so where do the samurai and related things fit into this?
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Kirves
Black Belt
Joined: 09 Jan 2003
Posts: 1182
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| Posted: Tue Sep 30, 2003 1:03 am Post subject: |
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| The samurai have nothing to do with Okinawan karate. The samurai studied what is known as "koryu bujutsu". This encompasses such arts as jujutsu, aikijujutsu, taijutsu and the various weapons arts like kenjutsu, iaijutsu, naginatajutsu and so forth. The samurai were professional warriors of the "bakufu" government of feudal Japan. All this has little to do with what the karateka did on Okinawa. Karate had basically no effect or relation with/to the samurai arts of mainland Japan. |
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Drunken Monkey
Black Belt
Joined: 10 Apr 2002
Posts: 3559
Location: bar italia
Styles: white chocolate profiteroles and natas....
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| Posted: Tue Sep 30, 2003 5:43 am Post subject: |
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so samurai had nothing/little to do with karate in general?
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Sasori_Te
Black Belt
Joined: 15 Aug 2003
Posts: 1116
Location: Near Akron Ohio
Styles: Kempo and Kobudo
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| Posted: Tue Sep 30, 2003 5:55 am Post subject: |
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Correct DM ...... Kirves has it right. The only time the samurai even interacted with Okinawans was when Japan occupied Okinawa for the last time. The Samurai made quick work of the resistnce in Okinawa. The Okinawan surender only took 2 months. The bladed weapons of the Japanese were too much for the Okinawans empty hand styles and simple farm implements.
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Drunken Monkey
Black Belt
Joined: 10 Apr 2002
Posts: 3559
Location: bar italia
Styles: white chocolate profiteroles and natas....
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| Posted: Tue Sep 30, 2003 1:56 pm Post subject: |
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methinks i should get a book on okinawan/karate/japanese/martial arts history...
anyone got any good recommendations?
so, just correct me if i'm wrong here.
karate is technically an okinawan thing (that derived from native arts and shaolin)
it was "imported" to japan where they redefined its training to suit teaching to the masses (and/or for sport reasons)
the move to japan was less than a hundred years ago.
samurais have nothing to do with it.
(following that, use of ninja's etc has nothing to do with it)
the principle differences is in the training and different emphasis during training.
okinawan WAS more on effectiveness+actual execution.
japanese is more on the precision of execution (less on actual use, depending on the style)
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Kirves
Black Belt
Joined: 09 Jan 2003
Posts: 1182
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| Posted: Tue Sep 30, 2003 11:50 pm Post subject: |
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methinks i should get a book on okinawan/karate/japanese/martial arts history...
anyone got any good recommendations? |
Books by Pat McCarthy and Mark Bishop are the best ones on the subject of Okinawan karate.
| Quote: |
karate is technically an okinawan thing (that derived from native arts and shaolin)
it was "imported" to japan where they redefined its training to suit teaching to the masses (and/or for sport reasons)
the move to japan was less than a hundred years ago. |
Yes, yes and yes. |
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Jussi Häkkinen
Purple Belt
Joined: 28 Aug 2003
Posts: 507
Location: Turku, Finland
Styles: Okinawan Shorin-Ryu Seibukan Karate-Do
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| Posted: Wed Oct 01, 2003 6:23 am Post subject: |
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I could also recommend books from such individuals as Jamal Measara (Okinawa Dento Karate-Do), Shoshin Nagamine and Morio Higaonna.
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Jussi Häkkinen
Okinawan Shorin-Ryu Seibukan Karate-Do (Kyan Chotoku lineage)
Turku
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Sasori_Te
Black Belt
Joined: 15 Aug 2003
Posts: 1116
Location: Near Akron Ohio
Styles: Kempo and Kobudo
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| Posted: Wed Oct 01, 2003 7:03 am Post subject: |
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You can also try Don Draeger and George Alexander's books. They are both noted martial arts historians.
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Drunken Monkey
Black Belt
Joined: 10 Apr 2002
Posts: 3559
Location: bar italia
Styles: white chocolate profiteroles and natas....
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| Posted: Thu Oct 02, 2003 5:42 pm Post subject: |
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um, thanks a lot guys.
i'm a chinese guy so the chinese legends/myths/history have kinda been force fed into me but the japanese martial arts history has always eluded me and i never really knew where to start.
i'll ask more questions when they pop up...
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Kirves
Black Belt
Joined: 09 Jan 2003
Posts: 1182
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| Posted: Fri Oct 03, 2003 6:17 am Post subject: |
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| Yeah, Draeger's trilogy is great, because it goes through Japan's martial history in linear order, starting from the beginnings and coming all the way till the late 20th century. He doesn't touch much on the Okinawan martial history though, as Okinawa's martial history really is a story of it's own. Even though many view Okinawa and karate part of modern Japan, historically they were completely separate. |
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