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Shorinryu Sensei
Black Belt
Joined: 13 Jun 2002
Posts: 2045
Location: Kalispell, Montana
Styles: Shorinryu Matsumura Kenpo (Seito/Orthodox) Karate and Kobudo
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 Posted: Fri Oct 31, 2003 4:42 pm Post subject: |
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| So do the Okinawan styles of karate continue to use weapons? |
I can't speak for ALL Okinawan systems, but Shorinryu still actively teaches kobudo (the art of weapons). Technically, it is an art within an art actually, and you get ranking on weapons alone, which is seperate from rank for karate (empty hand). Fotr example, you can have a Shoday in karate, and a ichikyu in kobudo, but there are no belts for kobudo that I know of.
There is also (just a little FYI here) a third art within the art called tuitte, which is the art of joint manipulation. AKA joint locks. There is no ranking in this that I've ever heard of.
3 seperate, but distinct arts within one art...and "usually" taught all together as one.
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| And have any 'Japanese' styles of karate adapted to include traditional weaponary? |
Many have, yes, but which ones specifically..I don't know. I'm sure somebody will dive in here and tell you though.
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I'm interested in learning to use traditional weapons, but obviously I can't do that in Shotokan because we don't train with them. Unless you count sweeping the dojo with a broom as weapons training... LOL
Thanks. |
Actually, the broom can make a pretty useful weapon when used as a blocking device like the tonfa or sai (along the edge of the arm for example) and for poking into a persons face (either end), stomach or ribs. Not real useful as a striking weapon however. To thin and breaks easily. |
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Kirves
Black Belt
Joined: 09 Jan 2003
Posts: 1182
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| Posted: Tue Nov 04, 2003 12:42 pm Post subject: |
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| Goju1 wrote: |
| Interested in your opinions on Naha-Te, which was brought back to Okinawa from China in the late 1800's. Today, this would usually be called Goju-Ryu and refered to as karate, yet all of the kata are essentially Chinese (the 'S' ones) The differences between Japanese karate are obvious, but what would you consider the main differences between that karate and the Chinese style it derived from? |
Hi, sorry for taking so long to reply, haven't been here for a while. I really don't know that much about Naha-te technically, but I do know that Okinawan's preferred closed fist, while the Chinese preferred open palms. In Naha-te kata's this was often changed by the Okinawans, which also means that some aspects of the kata had to be changed to accommodate the change so that the techniques are still optimal. Hope this helps.  |
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humblecanadiangojuguy
White Belt
Joined: 03 Nov 2003
Posts: 14
Styles: Goju-ryu
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| Posted: Tue Nov 04, 2003 2:47 pm Post subject: |
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| Goju is very different from shotokan, very different. I have done goju for several years now and it is great. It is a mix of karate and grappling, true self defense form, not pretty but effective in a real fight. Not going to win alot of kata tours or look sexy doing it but it is great in a fight. Alot more open hands than shotokan, shokokan is very hard, very linear. Goju is softer at times more like kung-fu pumped up, more aggressive. We say once we touch you we never let go. Goju is alot knees, elbows etc all in very close. Getting in close freaks out most people if they have never seem a Goju guy fight before, really freaks out TKD guys, they almost run away, lol. I go and watch TKD guys class and their black belts are funny, I have been doing Goju for only 2 1/2 years and I would destroy them in a fight. Its like they are afraid to throw a punch, they have no power or speed in their strikes. I do not have much faith in high kicks if you can't tell already. I have never seen a student with the same amount of training as me in TKD or any other that could hit me with a high kick, not a chance. Maybe yes if they were a 2nd black belt of something, maybe, but someone with the same amount of training. Low kicks, nothing above the waist unless the guy is almost out already and you are just finishing him off with a high kick. A high kick anyother time is just showing off and looking for you to get your butt put on the floor by someone who knows alittle grap skill. Don't kick high unless you are just showing your friends how high you can kick. lol |
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Goju1
Blue Belt
Joined: 04 Jul 2003
Posts: 266
Location: Coronado CA
Styles: IOGKF Goju Ryu
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| Posted: Tue Nov 04, 2003 4:15 pm Post subject: |
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| Kirves wrote: |
| Goju1 wrote: |
| Interested in your opinions on Naha-Te, which was brought back to Okinawa from China in the late 1800's. Today, this would usually be called Goju-Ryu and refered to as karate, yet all of the kata are essentially Chinese (the 'S' ones) The differences between Japanese karate are obvious, but what would you consider the main differences between that karate and the Chinese style it derived from? |
Hi, sorry for taking so long to reply, haven't been here for a while. I really don't know that much about Naha-te technically, but I do know that Okinawan's preferred closed fist, while the Chinese preferred open palms. In Naha-te kata's this was often changed by the Okinawans, which also means that some aspects of the kata had to be changed to accommodate the change so that the techniques are still optimal. Hope this helps. |
Thanks, although we use quite a bit of open handed techniques, don't know if its because we are so traditional or if all Goju styles do? |
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Goju1
Blue Belt
Joined: 04 Jul 2003
Posts: 266
Location: Coronado CA
Styles: IOGKF Goju Ryu
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| Posted: Tue Nov 04, 2003 4:23 pm Post subject: |
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| humblecanadiangojuguy wrote: |
| Goju is very different from shotokan, very different. I have done goju for several years now and it is great. It is a mix of karate and grappling, true self defense form, not pretty but effective in a real fight. Not going to win alot of kata tours or look sexy doing it but it is great in a fight. Alot more open hands than shotokan, shokokan is very hard, very linear. Goju is softer at times more like kung-fu pumped up, more aggressive. We say once we touch you we never let go. Goju is alot knees, elbows etc all in very close. Getting in close freaks out most people if they have never seem a Goju guy fight before, really freaks out TKD guys, they almost run away, lol. |
Yes, I agree - Goju is very different isn't it? I've been studying for 8 years and have some experience with other styles. The close-in fighting is unique, I think. We are taught to never back up, sideways maybe, but never back, then step in and stay there to use, as you said, elbows, knees, backfists, pressure points, etc. And the sticky hands or muchimi - the 'never-letting-go' is unique to Goju, I think. Yeah, it freaks people out when they attack and you not only don't retreat, but actually slip inside their defense! |
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Kirves
Black Belt
Joined: 09 Jan 2003
Posts: 1182
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| Posted: Wed Nov 05, 2003 3:00 am Post subject: |
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| Goju1 wrote: |
| Thanks, although we use quite a bit of open handed techniques, don't know if its because we are so traditional or if all Goju styles do? |
I think it is just evidence of it being closer to karate's Chinese origins than some other styles.  |
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tokeabowl
Yellow Belt
Joined: 24 Jul 2003
Posts: 79
Location: South Central, Los Angeles
Styles: PRIDE-OKINAWA-PRIDE(Karate)
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| Posted: Sat Nov 08, 2003 1:44 am Post subject: |
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| all i know is that there are a lot more moves in Okinawan karate than Japanese karate. There are a lot more different ways to train too. |
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Mole78
Yellow Belt
Joined: 10 Aug 2003
Posts: 43
Location: UK
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| Posted: Sat Nov 08, 2003 4:19 pm Post subject: |
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| Goju1 wrote: |
| Kirves wrote: |
| Yes, modern karate is less than 100 years old. There still are Okinawan styles that (try to) stick to older methods. |
Interested in your opinions on Naha-Te, which was brought back to Okinawa from China in the late 1800's. Today, this would usually be called Goju-Ryu and refered to as karate, yet all of the kata are essentially Chinese (the 'S' ones) The differences between Japanese karate are obvious, but what would you consider the main differences between that karate and the Chinese style it derived from? |
I have heard this before and it has intrigued me. I studied Saifa when doing Karate and often wondered which Chinese style this is from.
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Jussi Häkkinen
Purple Belt
Joined: 28 Aug 2003
Posts: 507
Location: Turku, Finland
Styles: Okinawan Shorin-Ryu Seibukan Karate-Do
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| Posted: Sat Nov 08, 2003 4:46 pm Post subject: |
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| Mole78 wrote: |
I have heard this before and it has intrigued me. I studied Saifa when doing Karate and often wondered which Chinese style this is from. |
The exact style is rather hard to find out, but Chinese general Ryu Ryu Ko and Wei Shinzan from Fuchian were known to teach Goju-Ryu master Kanryo Higashionna in late 1800's. Some sources suggest that Ryu Ryu Ko would have been a master of Pangai Noon -kungfu. The name Goju-Ryu may origin in Pangai Noon, since Pangai Noon can be translated as "half hard, half soft".
In Shuri- and Tomari-styles (as well as in some Naha-styles) (Although Shuri/Tomari/Naha -isn't actually a good way to divide styles) there are traces of white crane and perhaps other styles as well. According to Dan Smith, possible traces of BaGua/Pa Kua can be identified in Naifanchi-kata.
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Jussi Häkkinen
Okinawan Shorin-Ryu Seibukan Karate-Do (Kyan Chotoku lineage)
Turku
Finland |
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on the post.
