Add KarateForums.com
KarateForums.com Awards 2023: VOTE Your Favorites!
Username:    Password:
Remember Me?    
   I Lost My Password!
Post new topic   Reply to topic    KarateForums.com Forum Index -> Karate
Goto page 1, 2, 3, 4, 5  Next
 See a User Guidelines violation? Press on the post.
Author Message

Zaine
Black Belt
Black Belt

Joined: 31 Aug 2005
Posts: 2243
Location: Dallas, TX
Styles: Matsumura-Seito, Shobayashi-Ryu, Shudokan, Long Fist, American Street Karate, Southern Mantis, HEMA

PostPosted: Sat Jan 21, 2023 10:15 am    Post subject: Sanchin Reply with quote

Iíve been thinking about Sanchin a lot recently. My original style, Matsumura Seito, does not have the kata, as it is typical of Goju-Ryu and other Naha-Te descendants, and MS is a Shuri-Te descendant. However, it is a famous kata, and 2 years ago I decided that I wanted to see what the hype was about and learned it. Iíll admit that I didnít get it at first. I understood the dynamic tension aspect, and how that could help train my body, but I was unsure as to the point of the kata overall. Regardless, I kept drilling it. I then joined a dojo that taught the kata, and I asked them if they could relay the message to me. They relayed a message of dynamic tension. My understanding continued to stagnate in a pool of ignorance. The kata is so much more than dynamic tension, however, and I want to talk about that today. However, first we have to understand positive, negative, and neutral energy.
The idea of positive, negative, and neutral energy is not a new one, though I first came upon the idea as a teenager watching Avatar the Last Airbender, where instead of Chi they use the term Jing, which in Chinese medicine (according to Google) is a dense essence stored in the kidneys. However, by Jing the show meant, essentially, chi, ki, or any other word for internal energy. For our purposes, it separates into these breakdowns:

Neutral Energy: Thatís the point where you are when you stand still. You are neither advancing nor retreating. Your energy is a wellspring waiting to be tapped into.
Positive Energy: You are advancing on your opponent. Your energy is being focused outward and forward.
Negative Energy: You are retreating from your opponent, taking a step back to block or attack. Your energy is being focused inward and away from your opponent.

This is the lesson that Sanchin teaches us. When we are standing still, in the moment before movement, we are ready. We breathe in, ready our technique, we are loose. We bring our energy inward and settle it into ourselves. We are using negative energy. We push the hand forward with dynamic tension. We push that energy out from ourselves and into the space in front of us. We are using positive energy. Sanchin makes clear the way we do kata. The concepts of tight/loose. The idea of relaxing and then snapping to a technique. These things are so easy to forget and yet Sanchin makes us remember by matter of principle. It creates the muscle memory of the push and pull of infinity inside your body. To be using tension the entire time misses the point and wears out the body. To use no tension at all does not develop your technique. To stand still is to accept defeat. You must combine all of these things to be an effective martial artist, whether you are doing kata, kihon, or kumite. As I was sparring last night, these thoughts we with me as they have been since coming upon this realization. As I performed my kata last night, these thoughts were with me. They make me a more effective martial artist, yes, but in a vain sense they make me fun to watch.
If nothing else, what Iíve come upon is that, often, we teach Sanchin too late (with exceptions, of course). In the last dojo, it was reserved for post-shodan. I think the lessons of Sanchin are far too important to wait to teach it until black belt, and I will change my own curriculum accordingly.
_________________
Martial arts training is 30% classroom training, 70% solo training.

https://www.instagram.com/nordic_karate/
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website

bushido_man96
KF Sensei
KF Sensei

Joined: 31 Mar 2006
Posts: 30001
Location: Hays, KS
Styles: Taekwondo, Combat Hapkido, Aikido, GRACIE, Police Krav Maga, SPEAR

PostPosted: Sat Jan 21, 2023 8:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

This was awesome to read.

Have you read The Way of Sanchin? I bought the book some years ago, mainly because of how much I saw Sanchin popping up here in the forums. I read it and enjoyed it (I've enjoyed many titles by the author, Kris Wilder), but I've never undertaken the endeavor of trying to teach myself the kata. Perhaps I should?
_________________
www.haysgym.com
http://www.sunyis.com/
www.aikidoofnorthwestkansas.com
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail

Zaine
Black Belt
Black Belt

Joined: 31 Aug 2005
Posts: 2243
Location: Dallas, TX
Styles: Matsumura-Seito, Shobayashi-Ryu, Shudokan, Long Fist, American Street Karate, Southern Mantis, HEMA

PostPosted: Sat Jan 21, 2023 10:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have not! I will order that immediately, it sounds really interesting.
_________________
Martial arts training is 30% classroom training, 70% solo training.

https://www.instagram.com/nordic_karate/
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website

Zaine
Black Belt
Black Belt

Joined: 31 Aug 2005
Posts: 2243
Location: Dallas, TX
Styles: Matsumura-Seito, Shobayashi-Ryu, Shudokan, Long Fist, American Street Karate, Southern Mantis, HEMA

PostPosted: Sun Jan 22, 2023 12:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I would definitely recommend learning it. In terms of movements, it's a short kata, I learned it in less than 30 minutes. In terms of growth, however, I feel that the return was far greater than the investment.
_________________
Martial arts training is 30% classroom training, 70% solo training.

https://www.instagram.com/nordic_karate/
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website

sensei8
KF Sensei
KF Sensei

Joined: 23 Feb 2008
Posts: 16247
Location: Las Vegas, NV
Styles: Shindokan Saitou-ryu [Shuri-te/Okinawa-te based]

PostPosted: Mon Jan 23, 2023 7:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Zaine wrote:
I would definitely recommend learning it. In terms of movements, it's a short kata, I learned it in less than 30 minutes. In terms of growth, however, I feel that the return was far greater than the investment.

I wholeheartedly agree!! Sanchin is NOT any part of the Shindokan curriculum but I still learned and trained Sanchin because of the important of it.


_________________
**Proof is on the floor!!!
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail

Wastelander
KF Sensei
KF Sensei

Joined: 18 Oct 2010
Posts: 2711
Location: Phoenix, AZ
Styles: Shorin-Ryu, Shuri-Ryu, Judo, KishimotoDi

PostPosted: Tue Jan 24, 2023 11:02 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sanchin is a bit of an odd one, for me. I learned it, originally, in Shuri-Ryu, where there are three different "levels," progressing from a super-compact version, to a fairly normal version, to something more like Hangetsu. I only learned the first, super-compact version, and I can't say I enjoyed it, at all, although I felt pretty good about how it helped me with my stability and muscle tension. A little while later, I picked up Tensho during a seminar that my Shuri-Ryu dojo held, and I found that I really enjoyed that much more.

After leaving Shuri-Ryu, I did some research and worked with some Goju-Ryu folks to get my Sanchin and Tensho (as well as Seiyunchin) more in-line with Goju-Ryu, and I enjoyed Tensho even more. Sanchin was better, but still not my favorite. Since then, I have learned Shuri Sanchin, which is really only practiced by the Bugeikan and Motobu Udundi, and while I still don't like it, I try and keep up with it. Tensho, though, is my go-to for structure, grounding, and breathing.
_________________
Kishimoto-Di | 2014-Present | Sensei: Ulf Karlsson
Shorin-Ryu | 2010-Present: Nidan | Sensei: Richard Poage (RIP), Jeff Allred (RIP)
Shuri-Ryu | 2006-2010: Sankyu | Sensei: Joey Johnston, Joe Walker (RIP)
Judo | 2007-2010: Gokyu | Sensei: Joe Walker (RIP), Ramon Rivera (RIP), Adrian Rivera
Arizona Practical Karate
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website

Zaine
Black Belt
Black Belt

Joined: 31 Aug 2005
Posts: 2243
Location: Dallas, TX
Styles: Matsumura-Seito, Shobayashi-Ryu, Shudokan, Long Fist, American Street Karate, Southern Mantis, HEMA

PostPosted: Tue Jan 24, 2023 11:07 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm not familiar with Tensho, I'll have to check that out. On the subject of Seiunchin, I love this kata as well. It's my favorite to do at competitions, and just in general. It feels really good to do with a good mix of the dynamic tension movements and the fast techniques later in the kata. That's a kata that I can drill endlessly and not get board with, I feel like I learn something new each time.
_________________
Martial arts training is 30% classroom training, 70% solo training.

https://www.instagram.com/nordic_karate/
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website

aurik
KF Sempai
KF Sempai

Joined: 08 Nov 2016
Posts: 458
Location: Denver, CO
Styles: Shuri-Ryu, Uechi-Ryu

PostPosted: Tue Jan 24, 2023 11:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Uechi-Ryu has a saying, ďall is in SanchinĒ. It is the very first kata we learn, and we practice it in every class. It is the very foundation of our style. Our katas are all done in a Sanchin stance, or a stance immediately derived from Sanchin.

It teaches us dynamic tension, circular breathing, how to protect ourselves from being struck in combat, how to form a stable base. As we rise in the ranks, we are frequently tested in our Sanchin, are we effectively protecting ourselves? Can we resist being knocked off-balance? Are our strikes effective? Our instructors test us by striking us, pulling on us, and pushing on us while we perform Sanchin.

Our version of Sanchin is substantially different from Goju-Ryu and Shuri Ryu. For one, all of our strikes are done with the spear-hand, and we use a half-hard, half-soft strike. Our muscles loosen up during the strike to tense at the moment of impact. We also practice a shallow breathing through clenched teeth (think, ďssstĒ), which combined with tension in the abdominals, protects us from getting the wind knocked out of us.

When Kanbun Uechi went to China, he learned three kata: Sanchin, Seisan, and Sanseiryu. These are the foundation of our style. The foremost of which is Sanchin.
_________________
My Journey (So Far)
Shuri-Ryu 1996-1997 - Gokyu
Judo 1996-1997 - Yonkyu
Uechi-Ryu 2018-Present - Nidan
ABS Bladesmith 2021-Present - Apprentice
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message

aurik
KF Sempai
KF Sempai

Joined: 08 Nov 2016
Posts: 458
Location: Denver, CO
Styles: Shuri-Ryu, Uechi-Ryu

PostPosted: Wed Jan 25, 2023 12:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Zaine wrote:
I would definitely recommend learning it. In terms of movements, it's a short kata, I learned it in less than 30 minutes. In terms of growth, however, I feel that the return was far greater than the investment.


I've trained in Sanchin every workout for the past 4+ years -- there is always something new to learn in Sanchin. Just last night, Kyoshi talked to us about the importance of the Sanchin stance as it relates to your hips, shoulders, and reach. He demonstrated a front stance, and how the reach of the front hand is substantially longer than the rear hand. He then showed a Sanchin stance, and how the reach of each hand is essentially the same.

Last week we got schooled on the importance of the stepping in Sanchin, how important it is to keep your weight centered throughout the step, and why the steps should be quick transitions.
_________________
My Journey (So Far)
Shuri-Ryu 1996-1997 - Gokyu
Judo 1996-1997 - Yonkyu
Uechi-Ryu 2018-Present - Nidan
ABS Bladesmith 2021-Present - Apprentice
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message

bushido_man96
KF Sensei
KF Sensei

Joined: 31 Mar 2006
Posts: 30001
Location: Hays, KS
Styles: Taekwondo, Combat Hapkido, Aikido, GRACIE, Police Krav Maga, SPEAR

PostPosted: Thu Jan 26, 2023 2:20 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Zaine wrote:
I would definitely recommend learning it. In terms of movements, it's a short kata, I learned it in less than 30 minutes. In terms of growth, however, I feel that the return was far greater than the investment.


Well, I guess it'll be time to break that book out again, and do so.

A question for everyone here with Sanchin experience: if I were to look up some videos on YouTube, which would be good ones to reference?
_________________
www.haysgym.com
http://www.sunyis.com/
www.aikidoofnorthwestkansas.com
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic   Reply to topic    KarateForums.com Forum Index -> Karate All times are GMT - 6 Hours
Goto page 1, 2, 3, 4, 5  Next
Page 1 of 5
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum


< Advertising - Contact - Disclosure Policy - DMCA - Staff - User Guidelines >