Add KarateForums.com
Username:    Password:
Remember Me?    
   I Lost My Password!
Post new topic   Reply to topic    KarateForums.com Forum Index -> Choosing a Martial Art, Comparing Styles, and Cross-Training
Goto page 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6  Next
 See a User Guidelines violation? Press on the post.
Author Message

Toptomcat
Green Belt
Green Belt

Joined: 04 Sep 2008
Posts: 464

Styles: Japanese and Korean karate systems, judo

PostPosted: Thu Jan 21, 2010 9:43 am    Post subject: The crescent kick Reply with quote

What's up with the crescent kick? In karate and karate-descended systems worldwide it's treated as a foundational kick- often given equal or nearly equal class time with the front, side, and roundhouse kicks. It shows up often in our kata, arguably more than any other kick. It is indisputably present in the Southern Chinese systems that karate descended from, and seems to show up no matter what lineage or substyle you're looking at, so it can't be dismissed as a corruption or later addition.

Yet I can't seem to find a use for it. It is rare to the point of nonexistance in high-level competition of stop-and-start point sparring, continuous point sparring, knockdown sparring, American kickboxing, Thai kickboxing, and mixed martial arts, and I've never seen a self-defense application for it that seemed plausible.

Some Taekwondo instructors advocate throwing it when at clinch range- but I've never seen it actually applied successfully in a clinch where any degree of contact or grappling was permitted. The opening it presents for a knee in the unmentionables or single-leg takedown would seem to far outweigh the potential benefit.

Those who put together our syllabus and our kata seem to have thought the crescent kick was important, but I can't for the life of me figure out why. Help me out!
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message

DWx
KF Sensei
KF Sensei

Joined: 17 Jan 2007
Posts: 6335
Location: UK
Styles: Tae Kwon Do & Yang family Tai Chi

PostPosted: Thu Jan 21, 2010 10:29 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

In TKD the primary use for a crescent kick is to block the arm or leg. I wouldn't use it within clinch range, elbows and knees are much more appropriate when you're that close. If you're blocking with it, you should be going no closer than the elbow of a straight punch and the ankle of a kick anyway.

We don't really place that much emphasis on it though. You wont find it in the forms until 2nd dan and we don't really teach it earlier because to block well with it is quite difficult. Its rare to use it on its own too, if you are blocking with it at all, usually you'd be following up with a consecutive kick otherwise a arm block would have been a better choice.
_________________
"Everything has its beauty, but not everyone sees it." ~ Confucius
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message

JusticeZero
Black Belt
Black Belt

Joined: 02 Apr 2005
Posts: 2166
Location: AK
Styles: Capoeira Angola

PostPosted: Thu Jan 21, 2010 10:44 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Which kick exactly are you referring to when you say a 'crescent'? From the inside, from the outside, 360 spin?

There's plenty of techniques that are gold in actual combat that are of limited use in a duel, since in 'sparring' you aren't plowing into your opponent's space like an attacker would, and that reserve lets you break apart when you see such a technique. In reality that would be a fight ender because the break away defence opened the way to flee.

The 360 often gets applied at unusual angles in my experience, as a response to certain maneuvers; the inside.. your form i'm not sure on, but ours it's a response to an attack that had us fade out, or to a foot sweep.. I think you usually work from a sideways stance in general, so i'm extra hazy on what the outside would even look like. (mine is from a transition through horse.) Realize though that even though we're both doing kicking arts, i'm not terribly clear on how yours assembles things; different continents entirely in lineage.
_________________
"Anything worth doing is worth doing badly." - Baleia
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message

TheHighlander
Yellow Belt
Yellow Belt

Joined: 10 Apr 2009
Posts: 33
Location: Illinois
Styles: Shotokan

PostPosted: Thu Jan 21, 2010 11:29 am    Post subject: Re: The crescent kick Reply with quote

Toptomcat wrote:

...
Those who put together our syllabus and our kata seem to have thought the crescent kick was important, but I can't for the life of me figure out why. Help me out!


that's interesting. My Shotokan club is the exact opposite. I think it is used once in all the katas (8 in total) before Shodan. It is used once in Heian Godan.

I can only remember one class (in just over two years) where we spent any sort of time on it. Definitely seems more of an advanced move.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message

KarateGeorge
Brown Belt
Brown Belt

Joined: 21 Oct 2009
Posts: 646

Styles: Shuri-te Karate, Wing Chun

PostPosted: Thu Jan 21, 2010 11:51 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I've found reverse crescents and spinning reverse crescents quite handy and have used them many times in sparring. If done properly, a reverse crescent initially comes in looking somewhat like a regular front snap kick, and then part way through the kick the direction changes and instead of coming straight in, you're kicking in an arc. It can be deceptive and fast. The crescent kick from the outside as has been mentioned is usable as a block. Also, I've found myself using it in combinations as a "deceiver" type of kick. For example, I'll do a crescent kick, side kick combo. I'm throwing the crescent kick with the intentions of not really hitting my target, but to get them to block high, because the kick is going to come back again real quick in the form of a side kick to their (hopefully) now open torso.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message

WireFrame
Orange Belt
Orange Belt

Joined: 01 Nov 2009
Posts: 213

Styles: Shotokan

PostPosted: Fri Jan 22, 2010 10:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

When we've used it in Kata the Bunkai is less a sparring technique and more street application, always the hand is to the side, holding your opponent's head, which is the target for the kick.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message

joesteph
Black Belt
Black Belt

Joined: 11 Aug 2008
Posts: 2753
Location: USA

PostPosted: Fri Jan 22, 2010 2:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

KarateGeorge wrote:

. . . I'll do a crescent kick, side kick combo. I'm throwing the crescent kick with the intentions of not really hitting my target, but to get them to block high, because the kick is going to come back again real quick in the form of a side kick to their (hopefully) now open torso.

Interesting, George, because it's a required one-step sparring for me in Soo Bahk Do. Your partner throws the lunge punch, but that, to me, is just part of training to focus on something. The crescent kick is thrown and completes (I'd say w/o necessarily hitting) as a chambered side kick, which is then fired off to the midsection.

In the one-step sparring exercise, the side kick lands in front to go for a strike to the face. I think if he's hit in the gut his reaction will likely open that up.
_________________
~ Joe
Vee Arnis Jitsu/JuJitsu
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message

sensei8
KF Sensei
KF Sensei

Joined: 23 Feb 2008
Posts: 15162
Location: Houston, TX
Styles: Shindokan Saitou-ryu [Shuri-te/Okinawa-te based]

PostPosted: Sun Jan 24, 2010 11:59 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yeah...I hear what you're saying as far as the crescent kick being a foundational kick in many styles of the martial arts.

Foundational for me isn't the same as functional. Many times what is in Kata and Bunkai, including Oyo, doesn't always mean that any said techinque will work on the street.

Yet, to be able to have 'it', crescent kick [inside, outside, spinning, jump spinning], available if I need it, well, it's better than nothing...at times. I've seen TKD use a crescent kick from a clinch, and use the crescent kick quite effectively, both in national and international tournaments.

I love the kick and I'm very solid with it, but, I'd not use the crescent kick in the streets as a first choice.


_________________
**Proof is on the floor!!!
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail

joesteph
Black Belt
Black Belt

Joined: 11 Aug 2008
Posts: 2753
Location: USA

PostPosted: Sun Jan 24, 2010 1:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I've been doing the crescent kick two ways for quite some time now, one called the outside-inside and the other called inside-outside. Essentially, that just means how it crosses a path in front of your body when executed.

My teacher has introduced it to us in two ways, one that is more of a sweeping motion across the width of your shoulders, and the other as an axe kick to drop onto the opponent's collar bone.

My bane has been the jump and spinning versions, which I see as part of the art, but usefulness limited to sport in the form of tournaments. It's included in one-step sparring exercises, with the spinning version having come up in my green belt requirements.
_________________
~ Joe
Vee Arnis Jitsu/JuJitsu
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message

Montana
Red Belt
Red Belt

Joined: 18 Apr 2007
Posts: 823
Location: Formerly Kalispell, Montana, now Spokane, WA
Styles: Shorin Ryu Matsumura Kenpo & Kobudo

PostPosted: Sun Jan 24, 2010 4:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sincew we never do head kicks (unless you're on your knees maybe?), we use the cresent kick primarily as a sweep to the ankle or knee region.
_________________
If you don't want to stand behind our troops, please..feel free to stand in front of them.

Student since January 1975---4th Dan, retired due to non-martial arts related injuries.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic   Reply to topic    KarateForums.com Forum Index -> Choosing a Martial Art, Comparing Styles, and Cross-Training All times are GMT - 6 Hours
Goto page 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6  Next
Page 1 of 6
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum


< Advertising - Contact - Disclosure Policy - Staff - User Guidelines >