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bushido_man96
KF Sensei
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Joined: 31 Mar 2006
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 15, 2016 2:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

JR 137 wrote:
The crescent kick is like any other kick - it has to be practiced. And not just against the air. When I first started hitting a heavy bag with it, it was my weakest kick. The hook kick wasn't far behind. After a few weeks of really putting in effort with it it became pretty strong. Strong enough to not hesitate using it.

If all you punch is the air and some pads or mitts, you're not going to develop any realistic stopping power. Kicks aren't any different.
Agreed. And kicking a bag with the crescent kick really changes that whole thing up. Practicing in the air and with paddles, you get the follow-through. On the bag, you don't.
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DWx
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Joined: 17 Jan 2007
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Styles: Tae Kwon Do & Yang family Tai Chi

PostPosted: Tue Nov 15, 2016 4:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

bushido_man96 wrote:
JR 137 wrote:
The crescent kick is like any other kick - it has to be practiced. And not just against the air. When I first started hitting a heavy bag with it, it was my weakest kick. The hook kick wasn't far behind. After a few weeks of really putting in effort with it it became pretty strong. Strong enough to not hesitate using it.

If all you punch is the air and some pads or mitts, you're not going to develop any realistic stopping power. Kicks aren't any different.
Agreed. And kicking a bag with the crescent kick really changes that whole thing up. Practicing in the air and with paddles, you get the follow-through. On the bag, you don't.

Same as any kick or strike really. Need some sort of feedback.

Anyway, how about this as a nice, non-head shot, application for the crescent kick: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E_IuG5LgAg0 We use the same in TKD as well.
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Alan Armstrong
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 15, 2016 6:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

DWx wrote:
bushido_man96 wrote:
JR 137 wrote:
The crescent kick is like any other kick - it has to be practiced. And not just against the air. When I first started hitting a heavy bag with it, it was my weakest kick. The hook kick wasn't far behind. After a few weeks of really putting in effort with it it became pretty strong. Strong enough to not hesitate using it.

If all you punch is the air and some pads or mitts, you're not going to develop any realistic stopping power. Kicks aren't any different.
Agreed. And kicking a bag with the crescent kick really changes that whole thing up. Practicing in the air and with paddles, you get the follow-through. On the bag, you don't.

Same as any kick or strike really. Need some sort of feedback.

Anyway, how about this as a nice, non-head shot, application for the crescent kick: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E_IuG5LgAg0 We use the same in TKD as well.
An outside to inside cresent kick to the opponent's lead arm could work, if the opponent was stiff and grounded as in the video clip.

Mind you any technique would work on an opponent that was as stiff and grounded as in the video clip.

Techniques such as shown with this video are very ideal looking against a consenting opponent.
A none consenting opponent would make the technique to look less than ideal.
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JR 137
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 16, 2016 5:43 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Admittedly I've never thrown a crescent kick against an actual attacker. The only kick I've thrown are very low roundhouse kicks to the side of the lower leg as a modified sweep. Worked as intended all 3 or 4 times I've done it - cause enough pain to lose the will to fight and get them off their feet. It was always in conjunction with a few punches. I don't think any of those guys were 100% committed to fight, but were getting physical to save face.

I've thrown the inside-out crescent kick a ton of times against friends and my brothers that were "fooling around" thinking karate doesn't work. Never actually hit them with it, as I pulled it down after they saw it a few inches away from their face. What was the reaction every single time? Dropping their hands thinking I was going to front kick them in the stomach. There were a few times when I threw it multiple times in a row, and they laughed because they couldn't stop themselves from trying to block it low. Those times were all at close range, not in a typical dojo dancing range. None of them had any MA experience. Just about all have been in actual fights. A few were even guys I've wrestled with in high school.

It should work fine so long as it's not telegraphed, not expected, and it's been trained with real intent and power behind it. But in all honesty, what won't work under those circumstances? I say should work, because I've never actually used it. If I'm ever in a situation again where I need to defend myself, I'm not going to look for it specifically, but if the situation calls for it, it's there. Being 40 and not frequenting places and situations where there's commonly trouble, I doubt I'll have to use it. And thankfully so.
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bushido_man96
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 16, 2016 2:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

DWx wrote:
bushido_man96 wrote:
JR 137 wrote:
The crescent kick is like any other kick - it has to be practiced. And not just against the air. When I first started hitting a heavy bag with it, it was my weakest kick. The hook kick wasn't far behind. After a few weeks of really putting in effort with it it became pretty strong. Strong enough to not hesitate using it.

If all you punch is the air and some pads or mitts, you're not going to develop any realistic stopping power. Kicks aren't any different.
Agreed. And kicking a bag with the crescent kick really changes that whole thing up. Practicing in the air and with paddles, you get the follow-through. On the bag, you don't.

Same as any kick or strike really. Need some sort of feedback.

Anyway, how about this as a nice, non-head shot, application for the crescent kick: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E_IuG5LgAg0 We use the same in TKD as well.


I have seen this application. Its usually when the lead hand is holding something, like a weapon. If you can be quick with that foot, it can be used to close, like he did, and you aren't head kicking, so you won't be telegraphing as much.

I liked his video. I watched a few others, and I like what I see. I went ahead and subscribed. Thanks for the tip, Danielle. Incidentally, Henry Cho's books on TKD also take a more "Shotokan" approach to sparring.
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Alan Armstrong
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 16, 2016 5:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

bushido_man96 wrote:
DWx wrote:
bushido_man96 wrote:
JR 137 wrote:
The crescent kick is like any other kick - it has to be practiced. And not just against the air. When I first started hitting a heavy bag with it, it was my weakest kick. The hook kick wasn't far behind. After a few weeks of really putting in effort with it it became pretty strong. Strong enough to not hesitate using it.

If all you punch is the air and some pads or mitts, you're not going to develop any realistic stopping power. Kicks aren't any different.
Agreed. And kicking a bag with the crescent kick really changes that whole thing up. Practicing in the air and with paddles, you get the follow-through. On the bag, you don't.

Same as any kick or strike really. Need some sort of feedback.

Anyway, how about this as a nice, non-head shot, application for the crescent kick: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E_IuG5LgAg0 We use the same in TKD as well.


I have seen this application. Its usually when the lead hand is holding something, like a weapon. If you can be quick with that foot, it can be used to close, like he did, and you aren't head kicking, so you won't be telegraphing as much.

I liked his video. I watched a few others, and I like what I see. I went ahead and subscribed. Thanks for the tip, Danielle. Incidentally, Henry Cho's books on TKD also take a more "Shotokan" approach to sparring.
This crescent kick combo technique is used against an opponent from the same style, would this technique be effective against other MA styles or a bigger opponent? Or a smaller opponent for that matter?

If an opponent is just going to stand there and let you do techniques on him without any reaction whatsoever, well then it's not a technique, because he is behaving like a crash test dummy and the attacker might as well attack a mannequin in a store front window, as the result will look the same.

This exact technique was practiced in a TKD class. I was the one getting my arm kicked, it didn't work on me. So the instructor replaced me for another student to carryout the demonstration, that was willing to humor the CI.

People don't realistically fight in these rigid positions because if they do, a cresent kick and a few punches with a quick sweep will most definitely finish them off!
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bushido_man96
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 16, 2016 8:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

It just depends on if you see a need to kick the hand/arm or not. If you don't, then no, you wouldn't use it that way. It might be more useful in that instance being thrown into the gut, or the upper leg, or the knee, or even lower as a sweep.
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sensei8
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 17, 2016 2:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Why a crescent kick? I believe that that kick telegraphs itself way to much. I've jammed that kick more often than not. However, I suppose one could ask...Why not a crescent kick?! I, personally love the kick, having learned it in my short TKD days. However, I've not seen that kick having a high success ratio.

Why go fancy when basics work...still?! I know, why not go fancy?! In short, it's a preference, as is anything else in the MA.



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DWx
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 17, 2016 3:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

sensei8 wrote:
Why a crescent kick? I believe that that kick telegraphs itself way to much. I've jammed that kick more often than not. However, I suppose one could ask...Why not a crescent kick?! I, personally love the kick, having learned it in my short TKD days. However, I've not seen that kick having a high success ratio.

Why go fancy when basics work...still?! I know, why not go fancy?! In short, it's a preference, as is anything else in the MA.



Why have a spanner when you have a hammer? Different tools, for different jobs and different times.
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Alan Armstrong
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 17, 2016 3:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The video using a crescent kick, folloed by two short range punches to the mid section followed up by a foot weep, is not exactly following the Shotokan way of "the kill"

All that the defender needed to do would be to bounce himself forward a few feet, without doing anything else and the attacked would most likely be bounced away, to end up sitting on the floor.
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